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YouTube blocked chess channel after mistaken detection of racial slurs

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Re: YouTube blocked chess channel after mistaken detection of racial slurs

#221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree with you on the light metaphor. Black things admit photons. White things reject photons. Here's some more extensive reading from an earlier article when Maven did this: https://www.adexchanger.com/data-driven-thinking/no-more-inf... The key bit: > It reminded me of an iconic BBC interview with Muhammad Ali in 1971 where he recalled that all the positive things he grew up with were white, from White Cloud t…

I'm going to be blunt - these types of anecdotes are just plain stupid. It's people picking and choosing examples to support their desired narrative, and just ignoring anything that contradicts it. There are just as many "bad" things in English that are also white - white elephant, white ant, whitewash, white whale. Why didn't he mention those? The colour comparisons are also dumb, because "black" skin is actually mo…

> There are just as many "bad" things in English that are also white

Is that anywhere near true? I'm just guessing, but I'd be surprised if there are 10% as many.

Re: YouTube blocked chess channel after mistaken detection of racial slurs

#222
post #54

It should be a criminal act to ban someone from your platform without pointing exactly to why they were banned. "Oh but we can't expose details of our ban process for people to game" Bullshit. They just don't want to have to answer to anyone for cutting them off.

Why? YouTube has no obligation to host anyone's videos. If these chess channels don't like it they can make their own YouTube.

So, create your own platform, like Parler tried to do?

Re: YouTube blocked chess channel after mistaken detection of racial slurs

#223
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fairness the advantage from going first in chess is really significant at high Elos, so a design improvement that resolves that imbalance would be pretty good for the game anyway. It would save playing two games to get one result. But given that the only patch to chess in the last century was to prevent playing 0-0-0-0-0-0 with a promoted rook, I doubt I'll live to see that happen.

Chess played in matches, not games. Being white is like having serve in tennis. At higher levels, multiple games also allow for metagames and adjustments.

> Chess played in matches, not games.

I actually originally typed matches and then corrected it to "games" for that exact reason.

> Being white is like having serve in tennis.

Yep, exactly. But if there was no advantage to having serve in tennis, you wouldn't need to alternate it perfectly. Of course, coming up with a system in which there's no advantage (even one specific to certain playstyles) is nigh-impossible, let alone actually proving that to be true. Very slightly easier in chess, but probably still not achieveable.

> At higher levels, multiple games also allow for metagames and adjustments.

You could still play 30 games if you wanted, it's just that you'd have 30 1–0 or ½–½ results, instead of 15 2–0 or 1½–½ results.

Right now a single game of chess at a high level means basically nothing unless it's a black win or you know the result of the mirror match. This is very similar to the tennis analogy where holding serve is basically a non-event, and doesn't really affect the state of the game much until you see whether or not the other player does so as well. Someone who's 1–0 up after the first game on their own service isn't definitively "ahead", just like someone 1–0 up after playing a game of chess as white. They might be, but we don't know yet.

If white had no advantage, any individual game of chess is much more meaningful, as a win either way is a swing of momentum. Again, this fits the tennis analogy: any individual game is only interesting if the receiving player looks like they're a chance of winning it. This can be very boring in games with servebots, where the entire match comes down to the one 5-minute period where they weren't serving as well as they could have been, presenting an opening. If every single game was up for contention, the whole match would be much more interesting. It would also be easier to ascertain the better player, because smaller but more consistent differences in skill level would outweigh a single catastrophic mistake.

All that said the entire point of my comment was to make a reference to 0-0-0-0-0-0 because it's a fantastic move that more people should know about.

Re: YouTube blocked chess channel after mistaken detection of racial slurs

#224
post #75
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You kid but i've received 2 pull-requests on my open-source project, which only goal was to replace "Blacklist" with "Blocklist" in the app preferences. I don't receive many PRs. This is a real trend.

Black list and its opposite, white list, associate black with bad and white with good. The usage of black in “black box” means opaque, not bad. So these aren’t the same. I had never thought about the connotations of blacklist and whitelist before it was pointed out to me. In retrospect, blacklist and whitelist are unnatural meanings of the words black and white, and blocklist and allowlist make much more sense. Conse…

Blocklist to me means a list of blocks, like blocks on a disk. I am not a fan of using it as a replacement for blacklist.

I am in favor of denylist, though. I have never liked blacklist as far as I remember. I could never remember whether black means let it through or stop it.

I get similarly confused with "in the red" and "in the black" - which one means I'm losing money?

Don't even get me started on the CIA's black phones (which are green) and red phones (which are black). At least I think I got that right.

Colors are not a good way to name things.

Re: YouTube blocked chess channel after mistaken detection of racial slurs

#225

“ The researchers now suggest that social-media platforms should incorporate chess language in their algorithms to avoid future incidents like this.” Or maybe don’t automate banning YouTube channels via nebulous black boxes? Or can advertisers stop being afraid of anything and everything?

Advertisers, youtubers, users, brands - everyone was happy prior to the era of demonetization. What killed the golden goose was an extremely small set of activists and journalists (specifically Media Matters and Vox) methodically threatening brands with publication of screenshots of their "support" for controversial niche videos. And just enough brand marketing and YouTube employees were cowed, or at least ideologically sympathetic.

Re: YouTube blocked chess channel after mistaken detection of racial slurs

#226
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Frankly the whole thing stinks. On the whim of an unaccountable AI basically anything can happen. We need laws around this sooner rather than later. AIs are getting more powerful but less responsible. Just don't have an argument about a book or you could end up on death row. Gordon Dickson wrote a short story about this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computers_Don%27t_Argue

Why do we need laws around this? We need to hold the people accountable that put this into production and/or produced it. People should be able to build bad AI, but if that causes poor real world outcomes, then the people that okay'd its use need to take responsibility. "An AI erroneously banned the channel," shouldn't get any more leeway than "A support staff member banned the channel."

Apple uses 100% human labor for their app reviews. They get about as much accountability as Google does.

Personally, I think the AI is a total red herring.

Re: YouTube blocked chess channel after mistaken detection of racial slurs

#227
post #206
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm disagreeing with this thread. So I guess prepping for the down votes. > it trivializes all this historic pain to some inane game of word association I think addressing one issue does not 'trivialise' everything else. It can be horribly overstated but changing small fry can help provide momentum to change something more significant. > It's complete bullshit, It is obviously associating racism with something not in…

It may not be intentionally racist, but that doesn’t make it not racist. Consider why white moves first in chess. They literally did this two years ago: https://en.chessbase.com/post/carlsen-and-giri-campaign-for-... Anyway, in many religions the light illuminates things while darkness is the absence of light. So it’s not just about people’s race...

In go (baduk) black moves first. Does it make go not racist?

On the other hand, white needs 6.5 less points to win (komi). Does it make go racist?

Re: YouTube blocked chess channel after mistaken detection of racial slurs

#228
post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually watching every YouTube video uploaded would take ~100,000 people which is possible, but quite expensive. Actually watching every video that’s flagged for banning might take ~100 people and seem like a reasonable effort. As such arguments about using automated systems are meaningless, they can pre-filter without having final decision making authority.

Over 500 hours of video are uploaded each minute so yeah... even 100,000 people might not be enough to just deal With flags...

And maybe only 0.5 hours if those videos will be flagged by ML.

Re: YouTube blocked chess channel after mistaken detection of racial slurs

#229
This was only speculation. It's a pretty weak story:

> Even though the channel was restored within 24 hours, the YouTube did not explain why it had blocked Croatian chess player Antonio Radic, also known as 'Agadmator,' from its platform briefly, the Dailymail reported.

> Experts suspect that it was the usage of words like "black" and "white" that confused the Yutube's AI filters. They found that 80% of chess videos that were flagged for hate speech actually ahd terms like 'black,' 'white,' 'attack' and 'threat.'

YouTube didn't say why, and they simply "suspect."

It's just as likely that is was flagged for other reasons. For example, mass "reporting" of the channel as offensive by people with an axe to grid against this particular chess YouTuber. (It's been my personal experience there's a lot of politics in the chess community.)

Re: YouTube blocked chess channel after mistaken detection of racial slurs

#230
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment has been moderated for racist language ("black boxes").

You kid but i've received 2 pull-requests on my open-source project, which only goal was to replace "Blacklist" with "Blocklist" in the app preferences. I don't receive many PRs. This is a real trend.

> I don't receive many PRs. This is a real trend.

Is this from actual developers or just activists spamming people wherever they find them?

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