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Frustrated with Parler deplatforming, I am building a service no one can silence

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Re: Frustrated with Parler deplatforming, I am building a service no one can silence

#111

Post by cmeacham98 »

nostromo wrote: post #45
gchamonlive wrote: post #4

In a tolerant society, should we tolerate intolerance? I am genuinely interested to hear your thoughts.

Yes, of course. This is presented as if it's some deep philosophical conundrum, when it's not. An example: I'm gay and I have had friends that didn't agree with me in supporting gay marriage. One was an ultra-orthodox Jew that was my coworker, and we would disagree on just about everything politically, but we still managed to tolerate each other and even become friends. This is what should happen in a tolerant societ…

Counterpoint: you seem to have accidentally strawmanned the opposing argument into a situation where the worst outcome is polite disagreement where you still can "become friends". I'd like to hear your opinions on my steelmanned version of the hypothetical:

You meet somebody that is adamantly homophobic. They use their speech to rally others and take political action against gay people. They make same-sex marriage illegal (or block it from becoming legal). Maybe, they're extra successful, and can even manage to make gay sex or just being gay illegal, forcing you to pretend to be straight.

Oh, this person also is your boss. They know you're gay, and they fire you from your job in the height of a pandemic where people are already having trouble finding work. When you get home, you find out their friend is your landlord and you're being evicted from your apartment in 30 days.

Admittedly, this is somewhat of an extreme example, at least in my country in modern times, but go back 100 years and this is close to reality - and there's no strong evidence I'm aware of that suggests progress in these types of social justice causes can only be made forwards.

Re: Frustrated with Parler deplatforming, I am building a service no one can silence

#114

Post by the_only_law »

cemerick wrote: post #16

Number one with 27 points in 20 minutes for yet another chan board (named...pepe ) with a risible rationale? News for hackers, indeed.

Meh, at least it goes into some technical details. More than I can say for some of the crap that reaches the front page.

Re: Frustrated with Parler deplatforming, I am building a service no one can silence

#115

Post by NoImmatureAdHom »

Parler may be a shithole and this person could be a racist, but this is exactly the kind of thing we need. We may feel secure in our ability to silence people we find odious, but it's only a matter of time until the system evolves to silence us for one reason or another.

In particular, I think the magic sauce Pepe has is every user having his / her own moderation filter.

The bitcoin donation address is here: bc1qs9pksy354fjksldtm0f566lmqrafzqurp8tfm8

Ethereum: 0x7414938a215ff3a9D24073Fcb17750D0CE3E7bDC

Monero: 48wc7RZfQFo2VUydaoA6PM42GHmy6GKYJ2zXGmRic6J4hdTWw5Gik4NfiS6KjT9ZpPddNSb2W96ixQ59KXakYGMw9Z3D1Yk

Re: Frustrated with Parler deplatforming, I am building a service no one can silence

#116

Post by ethbr0 »

fay59 wrote: post #96
LocalH wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to elaborate? How do you protect against abuse of any exceptions in the long term? Why do you characterise absolute freedom of speech as an "ignorant" take, which could be construed as a bad-faith discussion tactic on here.

With “absolute free speech”, a couple of us could find your name and address, spread credible and damaging falsehoods about you, and there’s nothing you could do to stop us. And that’s not just in some online soapbox; we could call your employer, make police reports, put ads in newspapers, put posters on utility poles, tell your neighbours, tell the businesses that serve you, etc.

Yes. And we could do the same back to you.

Presumably society would eventually get over itself and evolving into something more tolerant of personal opinions, and questioning internet-sourced information.

Or, from another perspective, the only alternative is that only some people can do that. (E.g. politicians, security services, etc)

I'm not sure that would be preferable.

Re: Frustrated with Parler deplatforming, I am building a service no one can silence

#117

Post by almost_usual »

threeseed wrote: post #54

Everyone says this. Until they have to deal with the realities of what true free speech means: child pornography, child exploitation, rape, ultra violence, terrorism, organised crime, drug dealing, doxxing innocent people etc. My Reddit account is 13 years old so I've seen personally seen communities of all of the above grow and flourish and the true levels of depravity that humans can reach. Ultimately it got to the…

If this is true then the US will be guaranteed to fall to China as a superpower. They have perfected censorship while we have floundered and ambiguously identified things worth censoring or not.

Freedom of speech is the only thing making the US remotely competitive at this point.

Re: Frustrated with Parler deplatforming, I am building a service no one can silence

#118

Post by goldcd »

bilbo0s wrote: post #79
threeseed wrote: post #54

Everyone says this. Until they have to deal with the realities of what true free speech means: child pornography, child exploitation, rape, ultra violence, terrorism, organised crime, drug dealing, doxxing innocent people etc. My Reddit account is 13 years old so I've seen personally seen communities of all of the above grow and flourish and the true levels of depravity that humans can reach. Ultimately it got to the…

child pornography, child exploitation, rape, ultra violence Sometimes people get into a position where they have to defend the indefensible, and in the process end up rhetorically fighting a rear-guard action against the truth. There was the question of a particularly horrific death video of a 7 year old girl being disemboweled (among other things) a while back. Instead of simply conceding that there is some filth th…

It's a reasonable point, but if I can be a little bit "whataboutist"

If you're against entirely fictional depictions of child abuse, then how do you feel about other fictional depictions of a crime? (That's a lot of films and books to ban). Or pictures of actual real crimes? Would you remove photos of Auschwitz from text books? Or from a far right meme?

Not saying I have any better answers, just I get slightly niggles when others think they've solved the issue, by everybody else agreeing with them.

Re: Frustrated with Parler deplatforming, I am building a service no one can silence

#119

Post by goldcd »

the_only_law wrote: post #114
cemerick wrote: post #16

Number one with 27 points in 20 minutes for yet another chan board (named...pepe ) with a risible rationale? News for hackers, indeed.

Meh, at least it goes into some technical details. More than I can say for some of the crap that reaches the front page.

I was out, when it didn't use Blockchain

Re: Frustrated with Parler deplatforming, I am building a service no one can silence

#120

Post by mcguire »

tone wrote: post #80
ThomW wrote: post #9

Parler is a shit hole, and at this point I’m not sure we need another social network anything. The major ones do a lousy job of policing fake news and misinformation, and from your tone it sounds like you support that garbage. I’m pretty sure giving every moron on earth a globally-accessible soapbox is about the stupidest idea humankind has ever had.

I'm not sure how anyone holds this opinion. Do you really believe that this will result in fair, unbiased reporting? Who is the long-term great arbiter not only of the news but removal of non-news? I'm also not sure why your worldview seems to be that given access to all opinions, the stupidest ones too, people will not and cannot learn to make informed judgements for themselves. You will see some stupidity but it's…

Arguments in bad faith drive out those in good faith.

"Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past." -- Jean-Paul Sartre

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