Koo, India’s free-speech Twitter alternative • Hacker News Board

Re: Koo, India’s free-speech Twitter alternative

#151

Post by danans » Sat, Feb 20, 2021, 2:30 AM UTC

xyzzyz wrote: post #134

danans wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You need to cultivate tribal ties that are real, concrete, and meaningful and to some degree exclusionary A somewhat exclusionary tribe that extends across an entire diverse country? Not likely. The only thing more tribalism will do is strengthen the existing stark tribal groups we have (which are primarily racial, religious, and class). > In the United States, we venerate the Constitution. We have a pantheon that…

> A somewhat exclusionary tribe that extends across an entire diverse country? Not likely. Worked fine for most of the US history.

The victims of slavery, Jim Crow, and other tribal institutions of American history might beg to differ.

Re: Koo, India’s free-speech Twitter alternative

#152

Post by WillSlim95 » Sat, Feb 20, 2021, 2:31 AM UTC

portpecos wrote: post #149

hannofcart wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the uninitiated, 'urban naxal' is the broad brush pejorative term that the Indian right wing uses to describe anyone who disagrees with them.

It’s not pejorative. Naxals are supporters of the militant political organisation that claims the legacy of the Communist Party of India. In fact, Urban youth are specifically targeted to spread the communist teachings of Mao Zedong. They fund themselves through the Drug Trade, and 40% of funding for the Naxals comes through cultivation and distribution of drugs.

I have been studying reports on terrorism in India informally last 5 years and this comment is woefully inaccurate.

Every sentence in this is inaccurate.

Re: Koo, India’s free-speech Twitter alternative

#153

Post by nonamechicken » Sat, Feb 20, 2021, 2:31 AM UTC

sudosysgen wrote: post #145

manishsharan wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Also, some of these MSP crops like rice require lot of water for cultivation, and considering the shortage of water in most places in India, govt wants to reduce the farming of such crops. This is very a important point. Most farmers who are protesting are from the province of Punjab . However, their choice of crops and farming methods is leading to depletion of undergroup water and not sustainable in the long run.…

If that's the main concern, one may simply change the MSP crops not to be so water intensive. Completely removing the system clearly has other goals in mind.

Looks like fault lies partly with the government. Even though there are multiple crops with MSP, govt has been procuring only wheat & paddy in Punjab.

This is according to an interview with an agricultural economist regarding the issues in Punjab. See timestamped note below at 10:31 where he talks about this. Its in Hindi. Given below are the main points that caught my attention, time stamped in case any one wants to check it out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZGUBIdT6PM

Edit: Full interview available here as text: https://theprint.in/india/governance/save-punjab-from-desert...

___

If the current system of mono culture (paddy/wheat) continues, the land of 5 rivers (Punjab) will face desertification in 20-30 years, says one of the most prominent agriculture economists in India Sardara Singh Johl.

[5:55] Our current food grain production is 3 times that of the optimum buffer stock norms. Disposing of these stocks is a problem, as due to MSP, our crop is more expensive than international crops. The central government has to dispose of the stocks internationally, sometimes even lower than the public distribution price of Rs. 2-3 per kg. But that too is rejected on the ground of high chemical content in crops. We have moved from a problem of deficit to a problem of surplus.

[7:11] Land holding per farmer has decreased to a very small unit per person. This made agriculture non profitable. Farmers resort to borrowing money at higher interest from money lenders which in turn pulls them down further.

[10:31] What led to paddy/wheat mono-culture?

MSP and free electricity made paddy/wheat the most profitable. Even though there is MSP on other crops such as maize, pulses, and oil-seed, government doesn't procure them as much compared to paddy/wheat. Govt procures only paddy/wheat plus a little cotton.

[12:20] The MSP system has led to a cropping pattern out of sync with the consumption pattern. Other food grain production has crashed, as has fruit and milk production.

[12:55] The biggest problem in Punjab is the fall in water level, and its pollution because of the use of fertilizers. Punjab has the highest use of fertilizer per unit of land in the country, and the water table is decreasing 25-30 cm every year. With the Bhakra Dam, a lot of water was diverted to Delhi & Haryana. Punjab's allocation fulfills just 20% of its agricultural needs, so ground water accounts for the rest. With increasing urbanization, rainwater is not absorbed into the ground as everything is concrete now. Water that is absorbed from farmlands is high in pesticides & fertilizers, polluting the ground water. Nowadays, drinking water in Punjab can only be found at 350-500 feet with a deep tube-well. In 2 or 3 decades, groundwater for drinking might not be available. Punjab will become a desert if this continues.

[22:20] Solution to Punjab's crisis.

Economic diversification of crops is necessary. I've given 2 reports, in 1986 and 2002, proposing to maintain the water balance of Punjab. In 2002, 16 of my fellow committee members proposed to bring at least 10-15 lakh (1-1.5 million) hectares of land out from under paddy cultivation. Compensate farmers for growing other crops. How do we compensate? At that time, India imported Rs. 14000 crore worth of oil-seeds and pulses. We proposed utilizing Rs 1600 crore for compensating farmers for growing pulses and oil-seeds on 10 lakh hectares of land. Unfortunately, the plan didn't fully materialize.

[27:20] Now, the govt can give Rs 10000 per hectare to farmers to encourage the diversification of crops. MSP & procurement should be provided to other crops such as maize, cotton, oil-seed and pulses. Move the cultivation of wheat and paddy out to 50 lakh hectares of land in the Gangetic plains of Uttar Pradesh, Bihar and West Bengal.

[28:00] Future of subsidies

No farm sector in the world can survive without subsidy. USA, Japan and European countries provide billions of dollars to their farmers. They get subsidy even with farms as big as 1000-1500 acres. But Punjab's free electricity subsidy is wrong; its misused. Farmers will not do this if they are made to pay for it, and will lead to judicious use of water. Subsidize the small farmers in other ways (in a way recommended by WTO).

[Then they talk about contract farming part of the new farm bill. I skipped that.]

Re: Koo, India’s free-speech Twitter alternative

#154

Post by mc32 » Sat, Feb 20, 2021, 2:37 AM UTC

mrzimmerman wrote: post #91

throwawaysea wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you prove incitement? Because Twitter certainly did not list out any convincing evidence in their blog post about the ban ( https://blog.twitter.com/en_us/topics/company/2020/suspensio... ), instead sheepishly offering up Trump's absence at the inauguration as evidence. It's hard to blame Trump for the Jan 6th riots when 10000 people showed up at his rally that day and only a couple hundred at most went past the…

He also explicitly told everyone to "fight like hell". I mean, if he's using double speak I can't help that but one part of what he said triggered a percentage of the people to try to find and kill US Congress people, steal computer equipment and other office supplies, and kill police officers. You're asking everyone who watched the capitol riots to ignore what they saw with their own eyes.

I’ve heard lots of pols call out “fight like hell” mostly on the dem side, but you hear it from both. During the summer riots we also heard “burn the motherf$&@er down!” etc.

Re: Koo, India’s free-speech Twitter alternative

#155

Post by danans » Sat, Feb 20, 2021, 2:39 AM UTC

bhupy wrote: post #143

danans wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You need to cultivate tribal ties that are real, concrete, and meaningful and to some degree exclusionary A somewhat exclusionary tribe that extends across an entire diverse country? Not likely. The only thing more tribalism will do is strengthen the existing stark tribal groups we have (which are primarily racial, religious, and class). > In the United States, we venerate the Constitution. We have a pantheon that…

> he amount of lip service paid to MLK in particular is astounding, especially by politicians who actively undermine his movement for racial and economic justice. I half agree with you, but I think it's the side of the aisle you're probably not talking about that's paying "lip service". MLK's entire philosophy was peaceful civil disobedience as contrasted with Malcolm X's approach of radicalism ("So early in my life,…

> It's also not clear if MLK ever believed in enforced equality of outcomes (as opposed to just equality of opportunities).

"Equality of outcome" is a popular straw man for many who take the highly incredulous position that equality of opportunity exists today.

Simply ending the use of rhetorical racism would do little to remove structural racism that gives rise to the inequality of opportunity that persists.

Re: Koo, India’s free-speech Twitter alternative

#156

Post by mathemagical » Sat, Feb 20, 2021, 2:52 AM UTC

as300 wrote: post #37

I get the impression reading articles like this that the farm bills would certainly negatively impact farmer. See this quote from the article: >The country’s capital city has seen over four months of protest after Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s government enacted agricultural laws that would adversely affect farmers across India. However, from speaking to people and watching interviews where people discuss *the actua…

Here is an article that goes into a lot of historical context and explains what is happening. It's a bit long but does a good job of explaining all the nuances, so it's worth reading to the end.

https://www.fairobserver.com/region/central_south_asia/atul-...

Re: Koo, India’s free-speech Twitter alternative

#157

Post by higerordermap » Sat, Feb 20, 2021, 3:23 AM UTC

strategyanalyst wrote: post #63

as300 wrote: post #37

I get the impression reading articles like this that the farm bills would certainly negatively impact farmer. See this quote from the article: >The country’s capital city has seen over four months of protest after Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s government enacted agricultural laws that would adversely affect farmers across India. However, from speaking to people and watching interviews where people discuss *the actua…

There is fear that this will reduce the degree of government subsidies that farmers recieve. Current yields of Indian crops aren't stagnant, but there are fears that water levels are too low to keep them rising fast enough for the coming rise in demand.So too much land on water consuming paddy crops may be bad in long run. Bill tries to push towards diversification by introducing agri markets that may raise investmen…

Their fear is mostly about MSP (Minimum selling price) and lack of ability to negotiate with corporate buyers. There are indeed some monopoly dangers. And govt is hesitant to do anything about MSP but pay lip service. This combined with Modi's reputation for allying with big corporations is the reason for backslash. Of course there are political motives too..

Re: Koo, India’s free-speech Twitter alternative

#158

Post by higerordermap » Sat, Feb 20, 2021, 3:28 AM UTC

as300 wrote: post #95

webmobdev wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but what separates claims that the farm bill is bad from blatant fear-mongering? The same thing that separates claims that the farm bill is good based on the blatant propaganda of those in power.

I can't tell if you're being serious. If by your answer you mean nothing, are you saying that the farm bill panic is simultaneously both fear-mongering and push back against blatant propaganda by those in power? If by your answer you mean something else, why didn't you just say so instead of being so cryptic?

There are valid reasons, besides propaganda from both sides. Farmers can be rightfully afraid that they will eventually lose MSP guarantees, with Modi only giving lip service to MSP and not putting any regulations in place. Given the govt's tendency to ally with big corps, an Ambani / Adani oligopoly is a real danger as well. Of course there's blatant propaganda from both sides and those of us supporting one of these sides unconditionally are fools.

Re: Koo, India’s free-speech Twitter alternative

#159

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Feb 20, 2021, 3:29 AM UTC

naruvimama wrote: post #114

sgpl wrote: post #4

I grew up in India - nationalism is definitely a growing concern for the country IMO, more so than can be expressed online by articles such as this. And nationalism definitely has a huge overlap with hinduism in the country. Creating siloed media platforms that lets such ideas fester and grow is probably the worst thing that can happen. The thing is that even gently challenging these ideas (with some folks I know bac…

Nationalism can mean different things to different people and countries. It can be bad in former colonial powers and good in former colonies. And the BJP today under Modi is considered a "Hindu nationalist" after 70 years of Independence. This is in sharp contrast to Pakistan which started killing millions of Hindus & Sikhs, and has more or less completely wiped out their non-muslim population. This ethnic cleansing…

[deleted]

Re: Koo, India’s free-speech Twitter alternative

#160

Post by 2Gkashmiri » Sat, Feb 20, 2021, 4:04 AM UTC

why does anyone think this "koo" will be free speech? what security does its puny team provide that your words will not be censored, that your credentials will not be auto forwarded to police who will label you a terrorist acting against the interests of india govt which draws no sympathies today.Your life is done over a tweet or whatever they call it so how?