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Koo, India’s free-speech Twitter alternative

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Re: Koo, India’s free-speech Twitter alternative

#61

Post by throwawaysea »

sgpl wrote: post #4

I grew up in India - nationalism is definitely a growing concern for the country IMO, more so than can be expressed online by articles such as this. And nationalism definitely has a huge overlap with hinduism in the country. Creating siloed media platforms that lets such ideas fester and grow is probably the worst thing that can happen. The thing is that even gently challenging these ideas (with some folks I know bac…

So instead of a siloed platform, you would advocate for a nation to allow tech employees in San Francisco to influence other countries' elections, censor their politicians, control their societies' discourse, decide what's allowed and disallowed, and so on? That seems like a call for external rule and a threat to national sovereignty.

There are real consequences to such acquiescence. Not everyone agrees with American progressive worldviews and Twitter obviously enacts one-sided censorship based on those views. As an example of the kind of topic that would be treated differently in Western social media versus other platforms, consider that India has historically treated transgendered people as a third gender (by my understanding). This feels more logical to me than trying to forcefully redefine existing genders or creating an infinite proliferation of genders, but under Twitter or Facebook's rule, any such opinions or debate would be deleted and users sharing such views would be banned. So why should recent rapid changes in Western culture take precedence over long-lasting local culture in this instance? I'm not claiming that either is right or wrong, but simply that the increasing degree of censorship and control enacted by American tech companies reflects the views and desires of a narrow minority globally - and therefore they shouldn't be given the power that they have.

In the case of the farmers protests, I think there's an "other side of this issue" for the very problems you are alluding to. Factual errors, widespread misleading claims, meme-ification, and trolling are common tools of those who are on the side of the Punjab farmers and those on the other side. To call out only one side feels misleading to me.

Re: Koo, India’s free-speech Twitter alternative

#62

Post by BitwiseFool »

senthil_rajasek wrote: post #19
ceilingcorner wrote: post #11

The actions of Twitter regarding the last election have almost certainly guaranteed the rise of foreign social media sites. If they have no qualms restricting the speech of the president of America, clearly they’ll have no issue manipulating other governments. American social media sites really have no one to blame but themselves. I say this from a realpolitik perspective. This was clearly the obvious outcome.

Hate speech inciting violence is what was banned not any speech.

The classic problem is, how do you define hate speech and what counts as inciting violence? Who are the people deciding such things?

If you're a foreign government you do not want some committee of Bay Area Twitter employees deciding that for your national affairs.

Re: Koo, India’s free-speech Twitter alternative

#63

Post by strategyanalyst »

as300 wrote: post #37

I get the impression reading articles like this that the farm bills would certainly negatively impact farmer. See this quote from the article: >The country’s capital city has seen over four months of protest after Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s government enacted agricultural laws that would adversely affect farmers across India. However, from speaking to people and watching interviews where people discuss *the actua…

There is fear that this will reduce the degree of government subsidies that farmers recieve.

Current yields of Indian crops aren't stagnant, but there are fears that water levels are too low to keep them rising fast enough for the coming rise in demand.So too much land on water consuming paddy crops may be bad in long run. Bill tries to push towards diversification by introducing agri markets that may raise investment in nontraditional crops.

http://amp.scroll.in/article/821052/punjab-is-set-for-record...

Fear is also that this will hit farmers in state of Punjab and Northern UP the most. They rely on a system of guaranteed crop buying by government. Moving to market model may lead to changes that proponents say will raise their income but they believe it will lead to corporations eating away the profits.

Re: Koo, India’s free-speech Twitter alternative

#64

Post by nonamechicken »

as300 wrote: post #37

I get the impression reading articles like this that the farm bills would certainly negatively impact farmer. See this quote from the article: >The country’s capital city has seen over four months of protest after Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s government enacted agricultural laws that would adversely affect farmers across India. However, from speaking to people and watching interviews where people discuss *the actua…

I share the same fear farmers have in regards to corporations taking over things. I have seen documentaries that talks about how chicken farmers are at the mercy of 3-5 corporate monopolies in USA. So I don't know if the Indian farmers fear about corporations are entirely wrong.

Having said that, I think the new laws are good for India. These are the arguments I have heard in favor of the new laws:

One of the main arguments against the farm bills is that it will remove the minimum support price (MSP) guarantee which the government gives the farmers, and will put them at the mercy of corporations. India introduced the current MSP related system back in 1960 to inspire farmers to grow some crops when India had a huge shortage of food grains, and was importing grains directly from US (referred to as 'ship to mouth'). That is not the case now. India actually has a surplus of those grains.

Also, MSP covers only 23 crops produced in India. For example, onion prices dropped to insanely low prices last 2 years. There is no MSP for them.

Also, the MSP cover is available only in certain states, which puts other states at a disadvantage. To make things complicated, there is a law that guarantees certain grains at low price for the poor. For example, the law guarantees rice at 3 rupees to the poor. Govt has to buy the rice from the farmers because of the MSP system (say at Rs 20), and then in turn sell them to the poor at Rs.3 in a state which doesn't have MSP, thus putting the farmers in the non MSP states at a huge disadvantage.

Another reason is that farmers are producing huge amounts of MSP crops such as wheat because the price is guaranteed, while ignoring other crops that India has to heavily import (such as pulses and oil seeds). The govt has to purchase the MSP grains no matter what, and the godowns have way more in stock than India could distribute (almost double or more last year).

Also, some of these MSP crops like rice require lot of water for cultivation, and considering the shortage of water in most places in India, govt wants to reduce the farming of such crops.

I got most of these info from this video (I believe this channel is neither right wing or left wing): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9hSADKW3Cc

Re: Koo, India’s free-speech Twitter alternative

#65

Post by BitwiseFool »

ziftface wrote: post #40
indy wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

unfortunately "blind allegiance to a tribe who you don't hold accountable" applies to almost everyone who regularly engages with social media.

Maybe so, but it becomes more serious when it's about policy. Not liking someone or leaving a snarky comment on twitter isn't the same as stripping people of citizenship or having state-sanctioned violence against a certain ethnic group.

I'm increasingly worried about the decentralized mob-like "consequences" for problematic speech. Sure, it's not the government taking away tour citizenship or committing violence against you, but it's easy for your life to be destroyed by a single tweet or Facebook post. If tensions are especially high, you could have your home or business vandalized or burned down.

Social media can whip people into a frenzy and create a tyranny worse than what the government can do because there is virtually no accountability. The court of public opinion doesn't let you appeal your sentence.

Re: Koo, India’s free-speech Twitter alternative

#66

Post by ceilingcorner »

vivekpandian wrote: post #18

It has become very common these days, to label people who don't agree with them as fascists, nationalists etc. This kind of mentality trivializes real issues. Facebook, Twitter and other big tech think of themselves as erstwhile English East India company or Dutch East India company. Just because someone is from the west, doesn't give them any right to give any kind of certificate to government of other countries.

The companies you mentioned also thought they were doing “the right thing” in the name of civilization. Clearly they were mistaken. Times truly never change.

Re: Koo, India’s free-speech Twitter alternative

#67

Post by markdown »

ceilingcorner wrote: post #24
senthil_rajasek wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hate speech inciting violence is what was banned not any speech.

They’ve clearly shown themselves to have huge biases. The policy on “hacked” materials is a good example that was selectively applied only against one side. I’m really not a Trump fan and find most of the “conservative” media hilariously amateurish, but if you don’t see the obvious bias Silicon Valley has, I’m afraid you’re not paying close enough attention. From the perspective of a foreign government, why let them…

The bias is against electoral manipulation and fake news. Hence the "hacked" materials removal.

> The policy on “hacked” materials is a good example that was selectively applied only against one side.

On the side that pushes fake news, yes. That's a good bias to have.

Re: Koo, India’s free-speech Twitter alternative

#68

Post by ceilingcorner »

markdown wrote: post #67
ceilingcorner wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’ve clearly shown themselves to have huge biases. The policy on “hacked” materials is a good example that was selectively applied only against one side. I’m really not a Trump fan and find most of the “conservative” media hilariously amateurish, but if you don’t see the obvious bias Silicon Valley has, I’m afraid you’re not paying close enough attention. From the perspective of a foreign government, why let them…

The bias is against electoral manipulation and fake news. Hence the "hacked" materials removal. > The policy on “hacked” materials is a good example that was selectively applied only against one side. On the side that pushes fake news, yes. That's a good bias to have.

There were plenty of situations in which the information was clearly gained illegally (or totally made up), but since it made Trump look bad, it was allowed. His tax returns, for example.

As I said, if you think one side is somehow unbiased and just, you aren’t paying attention.

Re: Koo, India’s free-speech Twitter alternative

#69

Post by markdown »

nonamechicken wrote: post #64
as300 wrote: post #37

I get the impression reading articles like this that the farm bills would certainly negatively impact farmer. See this quote from the article: >The country’s capital city has seen over four months of protest after Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s government enacted agricultural laws that would adversely affect farmers across India. However, from speaking to people and watching interviews where people discuss *the actua…

I share the same fear farmers have in regards to corporations taking over things. I have seen documentaries that talks about how chicken farmers are at the mercy of 3-5 corporate monopolies in USA. So I don't know if the Indian farmers fear about corporations are entirely wrong. Having said that, I think the new laws are good for India. These are the arguments I have heard in favor of the new laws: One of the main ar…

You keep using MSP, but haven't said what it is.
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