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I Miss My Bar

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Re: I Miss My Bar

#401

Post by OminousWeapons »

bingohbangoh wrote: post #376
OminousWeapons wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is people saw China bring the situation under control in under six weeks and thought that containment rather than management was also an achievable goal here. They therefore interpreted the term "flatten the curve" in that context and assumed it would lead to containment. What they didn't see (and what was never really talked about) is just how extreme China's eventual response to COVID was relative to th…

That's if you buy the numbers from China at all. For all we know, China just stopped counting and is accepting whatever new cases or deaths come up. We know they fake other numbers. There's not reason not to think they aren't faking them here. If the news wasn't telling me about the Virus all the time, I would not know there was a "raging" epidemic. I only know one person who contracted the virus among my entire fami…

Show me the data. All existing data points to the fact that the Chinese largely beat this and have handled it in a way that is orders of magnitude more effective than the Americans. That includes anecdata I have coming from internal sources who have no reason to lie. If there was ANY data suggesting otherwise, you would have heard about it: they couldn't contain news about the original outbreak or any follow on outbreaks.

A few months into this, basically every single American media outlet was tripping over themselves to defend American values when it was abundantly clear that they were impeding our ability to successfully respond to this crisis. There was a huge appetite for bashing China / authoritarianism and pointing out the universal superiority of our system. The fact that we have largely heard nothing about the Chinese response (no criticism, no praise, no critique, not even general acknowledgement that it was much different than ours) from the government or the media suggests that it was a success whereas our efforts were a colossal failure and we don't want to talk about it or admit it: this situation doesn't align with the story we tell ourselves ((freedom and democracy) > authoritarianism, always).

> If the news wasn't telling me about the Virus all the time, I would not know there was a "raging" epidemic. I only know one person who contracted the virus among my entire family and friends group

We are basically a year into this with 500K dead and counting. How many citizens need to die before people stop feeling the need to create throwaway accounts to announce that this whole thing is overblown.

Re: I Miss My Bar

#402

Post by dominotw »

camgunz wrote: post #386
dominotw wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

we also know that social isolation causes depression and anxiety. "As the pandemic ushered in isolation and financial hardship, overdose deaths reached new heights" [1] Again, What is their basis for what is ok and what is not. Emotions. correct? Who are they to decide which population is expendable. 1. https://www.statnews.com/2021/02/16/as-pandemic-ushered-in-i...

Overdose deaths definitely spiked in the early months of the pandemic. I haven't been able to find anything after 5/2020, but I think it's a reasonable assumption that no one's in the pink of mental health right now, and that means the vulnerable among of us are much more at risk. But I don't think doctors are making decisions about advice based on emotions. COVID-19 is the most likely cause of death for people 25-44…

I don't understand how protests had any effect on asthma outcomes among POC.

Are you saying that they calculated

deaths caused by covid protests Hence Protests OK.

deaths from depression caused from isolation Isolation OK.

If so, can you show me how they calculated,

'deaths prevented from potests effecting health outcomes of POC'

> > I think the data (gathered by medical researchers and social scientists) back them up.

what data is this ? There is no way they gathered any data within 1 week of when the protests started. Thats just too crazy of a timeline. If they are saying that collected some secret data to prove that protests will save more lives than lockdowns in less than week, then that proves how brazen they are in in their lying.

Re: I Miss My Bar

#403

Post by the_af »

_uwiz wrote: post #400
the_af wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a dystopian martial law and you're not summarily shot or arrested. Maybe it's different in the UK, do they arrest you there? It's about not being selfish and helping contain or flatten the contagion. It's about thinking about others and not just yourself. > it's existing as a human being A selfish human being, yes.

300 days of restrictions. If your country is less restrictive, I'm happy for you. It's been illegal for me to have a friend over for 100 days. It's illegal to have a picnic on a park bench. So yeah, I'm not doing this any more. If you think that's selfish - cool, I'm selfish according to you. I'm not going to kill myself for your social credit score, stop trolling.

> 300 days of restrictions.

What country is that? We've had about 295 days of social distancing -- we recently moved from almost total lockdown to a less restricting stance, which also requires social distancing and discourages gatherings of people.

> If you think that's selfish - cool, I'm selfish according to you. I'm not going to kill myself for your social credit score, stop trolling.

I really hope nobody gets sicks or dies needlessly because of you then.

As for your accusation of trolling: please follow HN guidelines and do not encourage flamewars.

Re: I Miss My Bar

#404

Post by OminousWeapons »

cullinap wrote: post #385
OminousWeapons wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.who.int/director-general/speeches/detail/who-dir... https://covid19.who.int/region/wpro/country/cn https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/05/world/asia/china-covid-ec... I am also getting anecdata from people living in Shanghai and Beijing. Life has largely returned to normal outside of people wearing masks.

Was there a reliable test in Feb 2020 at the time of the WHO article?. Who is to say that they are reporting the numbers correctly? For most of Jan 2020, china claimed covid was mild and wasn't spread human to human (and the WHO backed them up for some time as well).

If your response to me posting sources is going to be "I don't believe any data that emerges from China" then why did you ask for sources?

Re: I Miss My Bar

#405

Post by _uwiz »

the_af wrote: post #403
_uwiz wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

300 days of restrictions. If your country is less restrictive, I'm happy for you. It's been illegal for me to have a friend over for 100 days. It's illegal to have a picnic on a park bench. So yeah, I'm not doing this any more. If you think that's selfish - cool, I'm selfish according to you. I'm not going to kill myself for your social credit score, stop trolling.

> 300 days of restrictions. What country is that? We've had about 295 days of social distancing -- we recently moved from almost total lockdown to a less restricting stance, which also requires social distancing and discourages gatherings of people. > If you think that's selfish - cool, I'm selfish according to you. I'm not going to kill myself for your social credit score, stop trolling. I really hope nobody gets si…

I'm simply refusing the concept that my mental health is "opt-in".

If you don't want to interact with me, that's cool. If you want to ban large gatherings and restrict smaller ones for a period of time, I get it.

When it gets to the point that it becomes illegal to be outside without an excuse, 300 days in, you're just subjecting people to cruel and unusual punishment at this point.

The idea that people are going to die in greater proportion than the damage caused by preventing people from going for a walk to the park and sitting down with a cup of coffee is not backed by evidence, and I absolutely believe that you are trolling if you think we can all just endure this indefinitely. You're just gonna have to throw me in prison because I will treat those basic freedoms as absolute until the day I die.

I hope you stay safe, best wishes.

Re: I Miss My Bar

#406

Post by [deleted] »

rtkwe wrote: post #368
OminousWeapons wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is people saw China bring the situation under control in under six weeks and thought that containment rather than management was also an achievable goal here. They therefore interpreted the term "flatten the curve" in that context and assumed it would lead to containment. What they didn't see (and what was never really talked about) is just how extreme China's eventual response to COVID was relative to th…

They didn't have to maintain the draconian initial lockdown the whole year though. A few months in they were opening things back up and thoroughly testing everyone that came into the country to keep it from being reintroduced while maintaining the monitoring to catch new cases. To all outward appearances it worked. The failure in the US wasn't inevitable, the US didn't even implement the basic versions of fever monit…

[deleted]

Re: I Miss My Bar

#407

Post by nradov »

rtkwe wrote: post #368
OminousWeapons wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is people saw China bring the situation under control in under six weeks and thought that containment rather than management was also an achievable goal here. They therefore interpreted the term "flatten the curve" in that context and assumed it would lead to containment. What they didn't see (and what was never really talked about) is just how extreme China's eventual response to COVID was relative to th…

They didn't have to maintain the draconian initial lockdown the whole year though. A few months in they were opening things back up and thoroughly testing everyone that came into the country to keep it from being reintroduced while maintaining the monitoring to catch new cases. To all outward appearances it worked. The failure in the US wasn't inevitable, the US didn't even implement the basic versions of fever monit…

Fever monitoring is a pointless waste of effort. Those thermometer guns are generally inaccurate, most infected people don't have a significant fever, and those who do have a fever often knock it down using OTC medication.

Re: I Miss My Bar

#408

Post by sensanaty »

anyonecancode wrote: post #244
RalfWausE wrote: post #31

I think the psychological toll of the lockdowns in different countries is highly underestimated. I myself have no real economical shortcomings due to the lockdown, but even as a person who is normaly a total loner and who can spend weeks completely alone on a excessive hiking trip i am slowly going crazy... For my wife, who is a highly social character, its even worse. And i am not the only one in this mindset... wha…

This is an odd framing to me. The psychological toll is from there being a deadly global pandemic. I guess we could have made the choice to trade the toll of social restrictions for the toll of even more people getting seriously ill and dying, but whatever choices we made and are making, the fact of the matter is that pandemics majorly suck. I think railing against lockdowns is a coping mechanism -- as policies we've…

>The psychological toll is from there being a deadly global pandemic

My friends and I could not possibly care less about the virus even if we tried, and half of us were even infected with Corona. The only thing affecting anyone in my friendgroup mentally are these lockdowns that are keeping us from living our lives, because I can guarantee you that every single one of us would rather be sitting in a crowded, closed space without even wearing masks than being forced to deal with god-knows how long of not being able to do anything, so I really wouldn't say the pandemic has any effect on us other than the fact that it brings with it lockdowns that none of us want.

Re: I Miss My Bar

#409

Post by dTal »

_uwiz wrote: post #26
tomcooks wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which country more or less is it? When the hot season will arrive will you be able to go out and make an impromptu bar with friends somewhere free (public squares, forests, beaches, etc.)

UK. I don't know, indefinite lockdown. It's currently illegal to sit on a park bench. I'll do it anyway, of course, but it might not be legal. [redacted] 97 days since it was last legal for me to have a friend over for a cup of tea. You know in the movies where at some point the psychotic main character thinks "I'm not the crazy one, it must be them"? I flip flop on this every other hour.

I think we should be clear. The lockdown, in more or less its current state, is necessary. Without it we will see a spiralling death toll, the collapse of health services, and many people saddled with chronic conditions for life, yes even the "young". I personally know some. Their lifestyles will never be the same.

However, it didn't have to be this way. The UK practically beat the pandemic over summer, and then snatched defeat from the jaws of victory by persistently ignoring reality. Reopening schools, Eat Out To Help Out, failing to stop international travel - these are the things that led to the current situation.

Get mad, by all means. But place the blame where it belongs. We are doing the right thing now, in order to deal with the idiocy of before.

Re: I Miss My Bar

#410

Post by dTal »

tinus_hn wrote: post #61
_uwiz wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UK Government 2020: It seems that most people are catching coronavirus in private homes. makes pubs shit to be in with distancing rules and masks etc people start to socialise at home more It seems that most people are catching coronavirus in private homes. closes pubs earlier people start to socialise at home more It seems that most people are catching coronavirus in private homes. close everything else, make meetin…

Yeah it’s like ‘30% of infections are happening in bars’ so let’s close the bars. Well now ’30% of infections are happening in gyms’ so let’s close these. Wow now that everything is closed, 60% of infections are happening at home! Let’s restrict that! Its just dumb.

Are you implying that the total number of infections is held constant somehow, and restrictions merely move them around? Because that's false. Restrictions work.
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