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Nvidia announces mining GPUs, cuts the hash rate of RTX-3060 in half

blogs.nvidia.com

201–210 of 762 posts

Re: Nvidia announces mining GPUs, cuts the hash rate of RTX-3060 in half

#201

Nvidia should partner with Steam. Steam has enough meta-data on user accounts to be able to offer a level of certainty about how accurate and authentic a given account and it's user information is. You could then use a trusted enough Steam account as a one-per-customer method to sell a card to. You wouldn't have to monkey around with hardware freedom and even if a person decides to re-sell it at least it had the chan…

That would be much worse than this.

Re: Nvidia announces mining GPUs, cuts the hash rate of RTX-3060 in half

#202

Have nvidia lost their minds? It's going to take days for mining operations to reverse-engineer the driver and undo this. So commercial operations won't be affected at all. Worse, their detection isn't going to be 100% perfect. What if After Effects does something that looks "kind of" like mining. Is it just going to be crippled? What will nvidia do then? Suggest I buy a Quadro for AE support? This will only penalise…

That's for the people who already own the card. If you're in the market for a new card and you have the option of a powerful, purpose-built card that works out of the box or one that needs endless tweaking, few people would choose the more complex option. Especially if it means every new driver that gets released is going to require days to make work properly.

There's no "endless tweaking" to keep your GPU mining rig working.

Constant GPU driver updates are the norm for gaming GPUs because GPU drivers include a huge pile of workarounds for buggy games, and there are new buggy games hitting the market all the time. But if you just want to run a specific straightforward GPGPU task like a miner, you only need to get one driver version properly cracked to unlock full performance, and keep using that until the hardware is no longer profitable to mine with.

And it seems pretty likely that a countermeasure bolted on to the drivers this late in the process will be defeated fairly quickly, and miners will go on a second shopping spree after clearing out the stock of the new purpose-built mining cards. (Assuming those even ship before the 3060 drivers get cracked.)

Re: Nvidia announces mining GPUs, cuts the hash rate of RTX-3060 in half

#203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Binning chips for yield is different from artificially crippling chips. There's nothing wrong with taking an 8-core CPU with a defect in one core and selling it as a 6-core part, or underclocking it until all 8 cores are stable and selling it as a slower part. The odious part happens when fab defect rates drop and yield improves, so basically all the dies can function as 8-core chips. When that happens, Intel et al.…

> there's no marginal cost to making another copy Marginal cost is not the only cost. It's disingenuous to treat it as such. It's also incorrect - making a copy for someone to access is most certainly not free. And the economics is sound - partitioning markets allows sales at lower prices to many purchasers. There's simply no way around this, no matter how you feel about it. >That's a pretty clear cut market failure…

> Marginal cost is not the only cost. It's disingenuous to treat it as such.

Well, it's a good thing I didn't do that. I just said that the lack of any real marginal cost means that artificial market segmentation for software should be analyzed separately from artificial market segmentation for physical goods. And only one of those two analyses is relevant to this thread. The software stuff you brought up is a red herring.

Re: Nvidia announces mining GPUs, cuts the hash rate of RTX-3060 in half

#204
post #37

I hate that I wasn't able to get a 30x series because miners grabbed them. I hate that my preorder was canceled by the supplier on the day it was supposed to ship, just because a farm had a better price. But guess what Nvidia? I no longer want your products. As much as I may dislike the fact crypto is affecting gaming (rendering, machine learning...) I can't help but ask: Who in the holy F are you to tell me what to…

It's probably not even necessary. They're also introducing a card that removes everything not needed for mining. Unless they're overpricing that card, it will be more cost-effective for miners and outcompete the gamer cards.

This ignores the fact that cryptominers sell their old cards on to gamers, at a value which, due to the shortage, is potentially even higher than what they bought it at. The only way out I see is flooding the market or a crypto crash.

Re: Nvidia announces mining GPUs, cuts the hash rate of RTX-3060 in half

#205
post #165
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do. The 5700XT is still an excellent card, the 6700 and 6700XT are coming out soon, and the 6800 and 6800XT are both absolutely killer cards as well, especially at the reference prices. Vendors and demand have effectively driven prices to an insane amount, and you just can't get them, unfortunately. Short of AMD doing something like Nvidia is doing here, I doubt we'll see them on store shelves any time soon.

5700XT costs 1000$ in Ukraine. It cost 500$ when it just got released. WTF? Edit: 1100$ actually.

I just sold a used one for $1100 that I paid $380 for on release. It's because crypto has gone up so much.

Re: Nvidia announces mining GPUs, cuts the hash rate of RTX-3060 in half

#206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ‘long run’ That’s on the order of years for this problem. I would imagine that Nvidia doesn’t think it could survive the reputational costs of charging market clearing prices for their cards for years - effectively proscribing their core gamer market for the entire period. Sure, that’s what’s happening now, but it’s the fault of scalpers not a business decision by Nvidia. The scalpers get the ire of the core market…

So they essentially got themselves in a pickle. It looks like they have not invested money in infrastructure and instead lowered prices to attract as many people as possible thinking what they currently have will be "enough". They have not predicted that the demand will be so high that it will exceed their current abilities and they have no money to increase the production and they are unable to raise the money witho…

> unable to raise the money

I think Nvidia could borrow or raise basically any amount of money if they had capital-intensive projects to invest in that would solve current or future supply constraints. Retained earnings are not the only way a company can invest in itself.

The problem isn't capital, its fundamental inelasticity of supply for semiconductors. Fabs (or capacity in fabs) can't be spun up or down quickly, nevermind cheaply.

Re: Nvidia announces mining GPUs, cuts the hash rate of RTX-3060 in half

#207
post #107
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Proof of stake is a solved problem, has a fixed block reward, has no ASICS or need for them, is no more complicated, is not in anyway subjective, and distributes coins just fine as both ADA and XTZ are doing right now.

They are correct that proof-of-stake doesn't solve the initial wealth distribution problem. ADA and XTZ solve it by pre-mining the coins. Ethereum is instead solving it by having an initial proof-of-work period and then moving to proof-of-stake after some amount of mining and wealth distribution has already happened.

That's not what they said. They said POS can't distribute coins, which is not accurate.

ADA and XTZ did pre-mine their initial distribution, and now they distribute coins through stake rewards.

Re: Nvidia announces mining GPUs, cuts the hash rate of RTX-3060 in half

#208
post #15

Gamers hate miners, they're driving the price up, make hardware impossible to get ect ... It's a really problematic situation. Almost 6 month after launching new graphic cards from AMD / NVIDIA good luck gettting an RTX 30xx or 6800. On a side note all those virtual currency are just plain wrong on the environment side, it does not make any sense in 2021 to have a currency that need heavy computation thus increasing…

The environmental impact of "Proof of Work" could have been a problem but the inventors did think about that and realized that mining can be done pretty much anywhere, using renewable resources that would otherwise be untapped. As usual the ethical burden should be on the user of the tool, not the tool itself. In the long run miners who do not use untapped (cheaper) renewables are going to be priced out, it just take…

[deleted]

Re: Nvidia announces mining GPUs, cuts the hash rate of RTX-3060 in half

#209
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The environmental impact of "Proof of Work" could have been a problem but the inventors did think about that and realized that mining can be done pretty much anywhere, using renewable resources that would otherwise be untapped. As usual the ethical burden should be on the user of the tool, not the tool itself. In the long run miners who do not use untapped (cheaper) renewables are going to be priced out, it just take…

> the inventors did think about that and realized that mining can be done pretty much anywhere, using renewable resources So where exactly did you read that in the Bitcoin whitepaper? Because everything else is just guessing.

Proof of work was not invented (or envisioned to be used with digital currencies) by Satoshi. It's been around since 1993. I can't really find a reference to prove what I claimed so I would agree I might have been misled to think that. But the truth is that it doesn't matter whether it was taken into account or not, what matters is that you can mine Bitcoin (or do any PoW) using untapped renewable resources (which is why big mining operations are based in places with abundant geothermal/hydropower and very little, if any, population) but you wouldn't be able to do much else in those places.

Re: Nvidia announces mining GPUs, cuts the hash rate of RTX-3060 in half

#210
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how Syrian refugees (or any other people from war torn place) convert their assets to crypto before leaving?

They don't need to mine for that, merely buy existing Bitcoins.

Is that easy? I assume they are going to have Syrian pounds as cash. Then I guess you need to put them in a local bank account and use that account to buy BTC. Can you buy BTC with Syrian pounds? If yes, wouldn't the exchange rate be dreadful? I'm not sure exactly who would want SYP.
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