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I am a heroin user. I do not have a drug problem

m.nautil.us

491–500 of 692 posts

Re: I am a heroin user. I do not have a drug problem

#491
post #5

Man, I read this as someone who tried to use opioids and I just couldn't chip. It spiraled into full blown physical dependence. I guess i'm the type with an underlying psychiatric illness which drove my usage and denial. That there exists people like this person who can chip (controlled use of opiates) always intrigues me -- as this drug was the ultimate pathway to euphoria and thus I became the mouse hitting the but…

Opioids are insanely and ~~instantly~~ quickly addictive. I accidentally became addicted after knee surgery. When the pain subsided, I stopped taking them, and within a day I found myself curled up in a ball and wanting to rip my own skin off. It's really true when addicts describe it as "being uncomfortable in your own skin". The moment I realized I was experiencing withdrawal, I flushed the meds down the toilet and…

> Opioids are insanely and ~~instantly~~ quickly addictive. I accidentally became addicted after knee surgery.

They may be instantly addictive for you, but they are not for everyone.

After I had a pleurodesis, the nurse sat me down in the chair next to the hospital bed and gave me a little controller I could use to release morphine into my saline solution if the pain became unbearable (and it did). It was the strangest sensation—I could 'feel' the pain, in a sense, but it was like I was on a different plane, and it didn't quite bother me.

But to say it was instantly addictive—nope. Not at all. Have had no desire to try anything like that again outside of a hospital setting. Maybe some people are just not prone to it.

Re: I am a heroin user. I do not have a drug problem

#492
If I try to synthesize the ancedotes in this thread, it seems:

1. Some people do not seem have an addictive response to opioids. It's roughly in the same safety category as alcohol and weed.

2. Some people become nearly-instantly profoundly physically addicted to the point that it will inexorably destroy their lives.

The only way to figure which category you're in is to try it and find out. There's a personal liberty principle argument that if you are in the first category, you should have access to opioids just like you have access to other pursuits of happiness. But the inability to determine whether you're that category induces a significant risk at the aggregate level. People die and everyone, even those who can take opioids safely end up indirectly dealing with the negative consequences in terms of rising healthcare costs, dealing with homeless drug users on the street, etc.

I can think of three philosophical approaches to this:

* Communal: Say that since some fraction of people will be grievously harmed by opioids, the greatest good for all is to prohibit them universally. We ask the safe users to sacrifice the harmless positive experience to protect the unsafe users from harm. This is nominally what we do now by outlawing them.

* Libertarian: Acknowledge that even trying is a roll of the dice and that if you choose to roll them, you have to take the consequences. This is effectively what we do now since the law enforcement is so ineffective.

* Technological: Research a way to determine whether you can take opioids safely without having to try them. Imagine a test your doctor could give you that says "Yes, you'll be physically addicted." That increased certainty would remove much of the stigma of use, and make it easier for those that are at risk to stay away because they know they really are likely to get addicted.

I don't usually lean towards tech solutions to societal problems, but this seems like a case where having more insight into an individual's physiology would help everyone make better choices.

(Personally, after receiving fentanyl during a medical procedure, I am absolutely certain I should never be given easy access to opioids.)

Re: I am a heroin user. I do not have a drug problem

#493

The fascinating thing about this stuff is that you can have outlier people. For instance, tobacco is supposed to be highly addictive. Well, I picked up smoking from a girlfriend in college and we used to smoke all the time. Like ten cigs a day for a year and a half. Real bad, right? Well, one day, I decided "Meh. I'll just stop" and I did. Not because of any reason. I just chose not to. Now cigarettes are way addicti…

This video about our primate cousins, the alcoholic vervet monkeys in St. Kitts, might give some insight into addiction. [0]

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSm7BcQHWXk

Re: I am a heroin user. I do not have a drug problem

#494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hot take: anyone writing articles about how they’re sensibly using heroin is an addict in denial

not really a hot take, this is more or less the mainstream opinion. it's also unfalsifiable. you can take anyone who chimes in to say they use heroin responsibly as more evidence for your claim. personally I lean more in the direction that heroin and friends are significantly more addictive than most other drugs. but I have to say, if there were a sizable group of recreational users, they would probably know better t…

> personally I lean more in the direction that heroin and friends are significantly more addictive than most other drugs. but I have to say, if there were a sizeable group of recreational users, they would probably know better than to ever say anything about it in public.

Without a doubt, how else do they get introduced/exposed to such temptations otherwise.

Pattern that usually follows is, cocaine, then onto doing crack as suddenly in their mind it's cheaper better high or other mental juggling to avoid having a break and carry on chasing that next level of high, building tolerance all the time. Then the comedowns, well whilst the highs may not seem as good and cost more to reach that level the downsides are less easier to adjust tolerance wise. So you find that chasing a line of heroin solves all that nasty crack come down and once in a while, you won't get hooked, after all you are able to do all that crack and your mentally strong and other decisions made whilst completely out of it on crack cocaine. So you make that leap, the odd bit becomes more and year on and your addicted. Coz prices and that, not long before your after that next level, so injecting for many becomes a hurdle that gets lower and more appealing and justified in crossing. You will just do it the once, case of only way to solve your needs as not enough to chase and sort the cramps. I've seen all this play out many times, heck even audio surveillance from chasing to shooting up to introducing new recruits into junkie club, via crack and then heroin. After all, opportunity to sort somebody out and charge them extra for sorting it, kickback from dealer and chance to share a hit - addiction makes people greedy and that greed plays out in doing what's best for them, if others freely bit that apple, they will certainly not stop them that hard. After all, how they themselves started doing drugs. Seen it play out just too many times and from start to coffin too many times and shocking how much goes on, ignored as society as a whole class the addicts as the victims and the dealers as the baddies in a clear cut way when I can attest that the lines are very blurred indeed.

Re: I am a heroin user. I do not have a drug problem

#495

The fascinating thing about this stuff is that you can have outlier people. For instance, tobacco is supposed to be highly addictive. Well, I picked up smoking from a girlfriend in college and we used to smoke all the time. Like ten cigs a day for a year and a half. Real bad, right? Well, one day, I decided "Meh. I'll just stop" and I did. Not because of any reason. I just chose not to. Now cigarettes are way addicti…

In the science of addiction what people have found is that if you change your environment you can literally get rid of any addiction. The studies from this are from Vietnam. Experts were expecting an unprecedented heroin epidemic from veterans returning from the Vietnam war as drug use among soldiers was rampant. Turned out these soldiers came back and were no longer addicted. Scientists are guessing the causal facto…

Nothing notable in my case. I'd broken up with the girl halfway through the period of using but I was still using after.

I know grandpa quit cold turkey after my dad (newly invested as a medical doctor) came home and said "You will die of lung cancer almost surely if you keep this up". And an uncle quit after his 8-year-old daughter (my cousin) said "Papa please. I don't want you to die" plaintively or something like that.

I guess some things just change the game for people.

Re: I am a heroin user. I do not have a drug problem

#496

The fascinating thing about this stuff is that you can have outlier people. For instance, tobacco is supposed to be highly addictive. Well, I picked up smoking from a girlfriend in college and we used to smoke all the time. Like ten cigs a day for a year and a half. Real bad, right? Well, one day, I decided "Meh. I'll just stop" and I did. Not because of any reason. I just chose not to. Now cigarettes are way addicti…

I used to smoke a cigarette or three a year. Get drunk on NYE, smoke a couple cigs. Wake up the next day with a hangover and have zero impulse to ever touch a cigarette again for another year.

I outright abused alcohol early in 2020 because shit got a bit cray-cray. Then just stopped because alcohol got boring. Done that a lot with alcohol.

Had an experience with Xanax several years ago though and I'm not touching that stuff again ever unless I'm terminal (then, yes, please). Still managed to identify the onset of addiction and stop it before it really got going, but I'm not touching that chemical again.

Re: I am a heroin user. I do not have a drug problem

#497
post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oxycodone is legal [albeit controlled]. There are plenty of pill doctors that will prescribe oxycodone to anyone that doesn't look like too big of a mess. A cousin of mine stole oxycodone from my grandmother when she couldn't afford the ever increasing costs of her spiraling out of control oxycodone habit. People have murdered and gone bankrupt acquiring oxycodone, and continue to do so. [ https://www.pharmacytimes.c…

Oxycodone was the #1 recent example of patients and even doctors being lied to about the addictivene potential of the drug. For well over a decade, pharmaceutical marketers (from Purdue Pharma especially) straight up falsely claimed that habitual use of Oxycontin would not lead to opioid dependency.

Which is a very near mirror to Heroin, which was created as a less addictive/problematic alternative to Opium.

Also, correct me if I’m wrong, but that doesn’t seem to address my core point?

Legality can reduce some negative effects, but it isn’t a cure-all. There are also a lot of people that should just not use opiates or bad things will happen, and we can’t predict who those people will be reliably until it is too late.

So please don’t use opiates unless you really really need to, and be aware of the dangers.

Re: I am a heroin user. I do not have a drug problem

#498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re still taking a substantial risk when forming that generalized understanding, and then another substantial risk when you start making conclusions from that general understanding. And for what?

My point is only that you strongly implied a fallacious argument, which damages your ability to reason on a topic.

Ok, so basically, since we haven’t proven the opposite, we can’t be sure, regardless of how the situation appears. I think that’s a weak argument in a general sense, but point taken.

Re: I am a heroin user. I do not have a drug problem

#499
post #489

The fascinating thing about this stuff is that you can have outlier people. For instance, tobacco is supposed to be highly addictive. Well, I picked up smoking from a girlfriend in college and we used to smoke all the time. Like ten cigs a day for a year and a half. Real bad, right? Well, one day, I decided "Meh. I'll just stop" and I did. Not because of any reason. I just chose not to. Now cigarettes are way addicti…

I don't know why you'd assume you're the outlier. Never mind the differences between physical and psychological dependence and problem use (which can happen without dependence, and one can be dependent but not using problematically), you personally experienced underwhelming withdrawal effects on multiple drugs that don't all affect the same parts of your brain, and some more physically addictive than others (benzos o…

A fair question. I haven't thought about it deeply. But smoking is a very social habit. No one hides the smoking. And it's really hard to hide because smokers have a sharp odour that's really hard to mask. So among the people I know, I know the smokers (or knew, since vaping wasn't common when I was young and had the habit).

So I guess I had a pretty good hold on what the population of smokers was, and so I know most struggled to quit.

As for the other drugs, yeah, I'm open to thinking otherwise. I have lots of friends who recreationally use cocaine, MDMA, LSD, mushrooms, and whatever else. Personally I've tried all of those and really just use shrooms now occasionally¹. No particular addictions there among my group of friends, so I'm open to your school of thought there.

¹ Cocaine is boring. MDMA is great. LSD is cool. Shrooms has massive therapeutic effects for me. I can skip my Adderall for two weeks after a trip. I feel so motivated to work and find it trivial to focus.

Re: I am a heroin user. I do not have a drug problem

#500
post #25

> Hart strives to “present a more realistic image of the typical drug user: a responsible professional who happens to use drugs in his pursuit of happiness.” I think this is likely wrong. I guess it partly depends on the definition of a "drug user" (like, does it include alcohol drinkers) but I would be very surprised if most heroin users are responsible professionals - how can you do anything when you're high on her…

Here's a better definition (imo):

> A typical drug user is someone who uses drugs.

It's impossible to neatly encapsulate every single type of drug user into a "typical" category. Everyone is different.

Some people use drugs. Others don't. Some people can use drugs recreationaly, others can't (including myself).

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