I am a heroin user. I do not have a drug problem • Hacker News Board

Re: I am a heroin user. I do not have a drug problem

#261

Post by emteycz » Thu, Feb 18, 2021, 4:23 PM UTC

jessebro wrote: post #249

ChrisRR wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if you ignore the price and how fast drinking once every half hour for 5 hours straight seems, that's 13.86 units of alcohol every day. So 10% of the population are in a state of being permanently hungover? It just seems odd that in the UK, binge drinking is considered to be an issue, and yet a significant percentage of the US population is drinking the equivalent of a night out on a daily basis.

You aren't hungover if you never stop drinking - which is the point. It's really, really prevalent in some industries. I've hired concrete finishers before (multiple times), and I've never NOT had a bunch of empty cans crushed up and hidden somewhere random on the worksite afterwords, even if it's only for a couple hours. When I worked with some writers years ago, they kept bottles of cheap scotch and 2 buck chuck in…

Don't forget about the amphetamines and cocaine... I actually think more than half of people in tech take something regularly

Re: I am a heroin user. I do not have a drug problem

#262

Post by swirepe » Thu, Feb 18, 2021, 4:23 PM UTC

5600k wrote: post #71

supr_strudl wrote: post #39

>When you’re at a wedding reception, alcohol serves as a social lubricant. People are more gregarious. They talk, they interact. The same is true with cocaine at parties, heroin among friends, or opium among friends, NDMA among lovers. It enhances empathy, openness, and forgiveness, all of these pro-social attributes. Please, don't take this horrible advice. Drugs are harmful and can do fatal damage to you and those…

While slinging a cat has always been a disturbing analogy to me, in this case I think it’s appropriate; you can’t sling a cat without it hitting a popular rockstar that did heroin or similar at small or varying doses, was convinced they had it under control, and their careers slowly and then quickly tanked. I also have friends and acquaintances whose lives were ruined by it or they died early because of it. I’m glad…

'Slinging cat' is slang for selling methcathinone. Interestingly, this doesn't change the meaning of your first sentence.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methcathinone

Re: I am a heroin user. I do not have a drug problem

#263

Post by jessebro » Thu, Feb 18, 2021, 4:23 PM UTC

capableweb wrote: post #231

lazide wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who decides that someone is a responsible and healthy adult? Do we have any data on how many responsible and healthy adults try heroin? Anecdata and broad brush strokes of course - In my experience anyway, the actually responsible and heathy adults I know haven’t felt the need to use heroin. The people who somehow are able to delude themselves into thinking they are responsible and healthy while obviously in cripplin…

> Who decides that someone is a responsible and healthy adult? You do. It's not up to someone to decide, you're responsible for your own body and your own decisions to improve/harm it. I don't think they are saying advising governments to setup some sort of screening process for this. It's more for the people who are interested in the drugs themselves. When I first started getting interested in drugs, many pushed the…

The problem with that attitude is when the body count gets high enough, there is incredible pressure to 'do something' - because enough people are terrible at judging this (or don't have the right friend group, or whatever) that we end up with huge crime problems, destroyed lives, and other social ills.

The libertarian 'you can do what you want and it's your own responsibility' is great until the people who obviously made the wrong decision stop quietly owning the results of their decisions and start murdering random people for money to fund their habit.

An argument can be made that the answer is free heroin and mental health treatment of course, and maybe it is the right answer. It seems hard for societies to accept however, outside of some very niche locations (Netherlands) though.

Re: I am a heroin user. I do not have a drug problem

#264

Post by xzel » Thu, Feb 18, 2021, 4:24 PM UTC

pessimizer wrote: post #78

viraptor wrote: post #64

I found this quote pretty strange: > Despite the current false narrative, the addiction rate among people prescribed opioids for pain in the United States, for example, ranges from less than 1 percent to 8 percent. What's the threshold where it's a problem? 1% of prescription drug users getting addicted sounds like a terrible situation to me. Let alone 8%. Especially if they're already in a situation where finding a…

If heroin were cheap and accessible to addicts, there would be no need to escape until the user were ready. It's so bizarre how laws against heroin get to be the Gallant against the Goofus of anti-pot laws when virtually all societal problems springing from heroin spring from the drug war. There would be few to no deaths, suffering, or crime associated with heroin if it were cheap and accessible, and if addicts were…

Heroin is already relatively cheap and accessible to addicts. The bigger issue right now is the latter part, helping people get off the drug and contamination, ex. fentanyl. I agree with everything else though.

Re: I am a heroin user. I do not have a drug problem

#265

Post by TheAdamAndChe » Thu, Feb 18, 2021, 4:24 PM UTC

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #241

koheripbal wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Opioids are insanely and ~~instantly~~ quickly addictive. I accidentally became addicted after knee surgery. When the pain subsided, I stopped taking them, and within a day I found myself curled up in a ball and wanting to rip my own skin off. It's really true when addicts describe it as "being uncomfortable in your own skin". The moment I realized I was experiencing withdrawal, I flushed the meds down the toilet and…

They aren't instantly addictive, though: As in, I've had opioids prescribed, took as needed, and still have some in the cabinet that are probably expired. I've smoked opium a handful of times. It smells wonderfully. And yet, if I take any drug regularly, I'm using something with THC in it (hash or pot, in general). I currently do not, however, and tend to have a few drinks and get high on the weekends. Not a big deal…

You're an outlier. The vast majority of people who smoke opium or experience euphoria from taking medical grade heroin will obtain the urge to do it more.

Re: I am a heroin user. I do not have a drug problem

#266

Post by leetcrew » Thu, Feb 18, 2021, 4:24 PM UTC

peteretep wrote: post #115

Zenst wrote: post #77

Whilst I'm sure there are many functional `users` of heroin, there are many more who think they are functional and yet they are not and just don't see it themselves. I've lived near many heroin `users` and I will say that the biggest issue is that if they can lie about their habits to themselves, then others are a given. Equally, whilst they may not see their usage of as a problem, they neglect to see the impact upon…

Hot take: anyone writing articles about how they’re sensibly using heroin is an addict in denial

not really a hot take, this is more or less the mainstream opinion. it's also unfalsifiable. you can take anyone who chimes in to say they use heroin responsibly as more evidence for your claim.

personally I lean more in the direction that heroin and friends are significantly more addictive than most other drugs. but I have to say, if there were a sizable group of recreational users, they would probably know better than to ever say anything about it in public.

Re: I am a heroin user. I do not have a drug problem

#267

Post by read_if_gay_ » Thu, Feb 18, 2021, 4:25 PM UTC

ch4s3 wrote: post #135

read_if_gay_ wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So even if it's not true for everyone that's a practically useless observation because how are you going to find out it's not true for you without risking becoming instantly addicted?

I don't have the reference at hand, but the rates of problematic use in the population seem to mirror alcohol. A small single digit percent of people will absolutely have a horrible problem, 8-10% will engage in disordered use, ~10% will over use in some way, and 80% will never develop a problem at all.

Excuse the snark, but any chance it was funded by the Sacklers?

Re: I am a heroin user. I do not have a drug problem

#268

Post by read_if_gay_ » Thu, Feb 18, 2021, 4:26 PM UTC

jshevek wrote: post #186

read_if_gay_ wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So even if it's not true for everyone that's a practically useless observation because how are you going to find out it's not true for you without risking becoming instantly addicted?

That you cannot imagine an approach doesn't mean an approach doesn't exist. It may be possible to form a generalized understanding of an individuals predisposition based on testing with other substances, just as one example.

You’re still taking a substantial risk when forming that generalized understanding, and then another substantial risk when you start making conclusions from that general understanding.

And for what?

Re: I am a heroin user. I do not have a drug problem

#269

Post by jack_riminton » Thu, Feb 18, 2021, 4:26 PM UTC

I saw this guy on Rogan and his claim that opioids weren't addictive just isn't born out by the facts

Re: I am a heroin user. I do not have a drug problem

#270

Post by slfnflctd » Thu, Feb 18, 2021, 4:26 PM UTC

jboog wrote: post #211

SamBam wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> His assertion the 70% of all drug users including alcohol and prescription users aren't addicted if anything seems extremely low to me. I'd say the vast majority of my friends drink alcohol and are more than likely on prescription drugs but I don't think any of them are addicts Actually, I'm not sure. 30% of alcohol drinkers being addicted might be roughly right (though surprising to me as well). In the US, 50% of…

Jesus, I thought I drank too much but it's still hard to believe 10% of Americans drink the equivalent of 10 drinks EVERY DAY. On my worst weeks when I think "i need to cut back" I might average ~3 drinks a day, maybe 5 on a holiday bender.

From direct personal experience totaling well over a decade, 10 drinks is not hard to get to, especially for a larger person. 2-3 to get things going, and 1 an hour after that, for up to 7 hours. On weekends, I split it up; 3-4 in the morning & before lunch, then eat/sleep, then 6-7 through the afternoon & evening. Beer usually seems to be easier on the system than anything else, but that may vary by physiology.

Once the habit is ingrained and you become reliant on it to control your moods, 'cutting back' is a whole different proposition. My triglycerides are terrible, but other than that I seem to be ok, so why not just keep going? It's the easiest path, inexpensive, and most importantly, a LOT less hassle than dealing with the minefield of incompetence you encounter when seeking mental health treatment.

I haven't given up completely on 'doing better'. But on the other hand, maybe that's not for everybody. We only have so much time here, how do we want to spend it? Stumbling over ourselves in an impossible quest for imaginary perfection, until we die anyway? Or enjoying ourselves the best we can given the dire circumstances?