'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry' • Hacker News Board

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#411

Post by celticninja » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 11:08 PM UTC

ratww wrote: post #403

diob wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I don't understand the massive cultural obsession over KPOP. It's one of the grossest abusive industries, and anyone who wants to know is able to do a simple google to find out. Those fans? They could use their collective economic impact to help those folks they "love". Instead they just let them get used and abused for their fantasy.

I don't see that changing. I see K-pop fans worshipping the companies as much as they worship the artists themselves. It's a bit dystopic. As much as the old music industry sucks, at least established artists had power.

Idoru by William Gibson

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#412

Post by ignoranceprior » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 11:15 PM UTC

cat199 wrote: post #22

Don't know why they picked a headline that buried the other big point of the article - "Mafia 'owned' pop stars" This is a huge thing hugely related to the rest of the 'industry culture' being talked about.

Does "Mafia" here refer to the Cosa Nostra, or other organized crime syndicates?

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#413

Post by GuB-42 » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 11:15 PM UTC

enriquto wrote: post #252

nostromo wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Roman Polanski won an Oscar after pleading guilty to drugging and raping a 13 year old girl. Look at all these vile people applauding this villain, who couldn't accept his Oscar because he fled the country. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXnNOBj26lk In some ways I think we may have over responded (Aziz Ansari is not Harvey Weinstein), but it was shocking what behavior people were excusing from the powerful even in r…

> Look at all these vile people applauding this villain Acknowledging the artistic talent of a villain does not make you vile. Not at all. Imagine a clearer example. Imagine that somebody is on a life sentence convicted of a murder that they have commited. Do you think that this person has the right to write a book? Can this book be sent for participation at a literary contest? Can it win? Does the jury that gives th…

If the book is really good, I'd say the villain should be applauded. I would applaud Hitler and recommend Mein Kampf to everyone if it was good (it is not).

It doesn't excuse the murder, but I think talent should be rewarded, doubly so if the person is a villain. The problem with most criminals is that we can't think of them as other than criminals, and it is a vicious circle because it drags people deeper in the world of crime.

We should give a message such as: you have been sentenced to 10 years, if you have a talent, use that time to develop it, and you can use it to have a good life after you get out. Just look at the other guy who won the literary contest while serving a life sentence, just because you did bad things doesn't make you can't get recognized for all the good thing you can do.

I've seen work mentioned as the magic bullet for rehabilitating criminals. Not as a punishment but actually useful work. And if the criminal in question has a particular talent, that should be taken advantage of.

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#414

Post by WalterBright » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 11:15 PM UTC

beckman466 wrote: post #105

leesalminen wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me your comment is illustrating your privilege. Prostituting oneself three times to be financially set for life could be a perfectly acceptable trade off for millions of people. The fact that you wouldn’t even consider it shows that you haven’t gone hungry for a while.

> To me your comment is illustrating your privilege. Prostituting oneself three times to be financially set for life could be a perfectly acceptable trade off for millions of people. I hear you and get where you're coming from, yet my take is that I want to shift the dynamics of the system for everyone. Systems change, not personal change. Also this isn't about a 'facing a trade off' or sex work, it's about dehumaniz…

> And I want everyone to be 'set for life'. It's absolutely possible.

Who is going to provide this lifestyle?

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#415

Post by netsharc » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 11:16 PM UTC

motohagiography wrote: post #37

cat199 wrote: post #22

Don't know why they picked a headline that buried the other big point of the article - "Mafia 'owned' pop stars" This is a huge thing hugely related to the rest of the 'industry culture' being talked about.

I remember reading about a scandal in the 90's or 00's fashion business where it came out the top modelling and talent agencies were in-effect used as escort agencies by super wealthy clients. The arts have always been seedy, but they have also always been a key path to social mobility, so it's kind of a story as old as time.

Same thing happens with cheerleaders of famous teams too.. (at least I remember an article where they were being forced to attend parties wearing little black dresses, with creepy old dudes in attendance).

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#416

Post by wk_end » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 11:22 PM UTC

mathgorges wrote: post #362

hackinthebochs wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The targets of cancel culture don't always get completely buried, just like attempts at murder don't always succeed. That doesn't mean it wasn't an attempted murder or an attempted cancelling.

Sure, but my point is that the thread author said: > 2. A yoga studio that was so woke they had gender-neutral bathrooms and person-of-color yoga nights where “white friends and allies” were asked to “respectfully refrain from attending” has closed down due to racial accusations. That was a lie. Kindness Yoga didn’t close down. So I’d advise others to take the thread author’s words with a grain of salt.

Calling it a lie might be a bit unfair.

The news article from June 29th it links to says that they'd be shutting down, and the tweet was less than two weeks on. I found another news story from July 10th [1] - two days before the tweet went out - repeating the intention to shut down permanently, and another from August [2] that affirms that a shutdown happened. So at the time the author of the thread was in good faith relaying the truth.

I can't find any news stories indicating that it reopened, so unless you expect the author to live in Denver or be following closely every single example he provides months after the fact, I don't think this is a reasonable criticism.

ETA: Actually, their social media appears dead since June; Yelp shows many locations closed, and the locations it doesn't show as closed have, uh, poems written in memory of them...so I'm wondering if it actually did shutdown and you're not just mistakenly thinking of/talking about a different yoga studio entirely.

[1] https://theknow.denverpost.com/2020/07/10/denver-yoga-studio...

[2] https://theknow.denverpost.com/2020/08/07/courageous-yoga-bi...

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#417

Post by beambot » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 11:24 PM UTC

snarfy wrote: post #385

yardie wrote: post #84

> the Mafia is very much a part of the music industry, I'm not too familiar with the pop side of the music industry. I dipped my toe into the Rap/R&B side of the business building websites for new artists. There were literal gangsters in the recording studios sitting across from me drinking and smoking and they made plans for every aspect of these young girls lives: what and when they could eat, who they could see, w…

I worked for a startup that contracted with the major record labels at the time, with a lot of the funding coming from the record labels. One day a group of four men arrived at the office. They were investors and not too happy with how the stock had been performing. This was a time before naked shorting was illegal. They all wore suits and one of the men carried a baseball bat into the office. They all had stereotypi…

> before naked shorting was illegal

It might be illegal now, but certainly not enforced!

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#418

Post by StevePerkins » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 11:25 PM UTC

LanceH wrote: post #274

mr-wendel wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great questions, and I applaud your ability to approach a sensitive topic with such open curiosity. Some arguments I'm familiar with around cancel culture are below. My goal isn't to assert them -- just enumerate some of them. People are welcome to reshape them or knock 'em down as they see fit. - The Internet is a global namespace: now you can have people anywhere in the world outraged. What used to be a localized p…

-- it is selectively enforced depending on what side someone is on -- especially with regards to forgiveness of something which happened some time ago. -- Context is irrelevant. People are being canceled for using the wrong word when enumerating words which cannot be said. again, some people can say them, some can't. -- it is completely out of proportion to things which do actual damage. This really bothers me. Someo…

> -- it is selectively enforced depending on what side someone is on

Joss Whedon is a showrunner and filmmaker, of Buffy the Vampire Slayer fame. A few years ago while going through a divorce, his ex-wife alleged that he had sex with female staff on one of his shows. This lead to allegations that his demeanor on the set of Justice League was snide and unprofessional. Which lead to former Buffy and Angel actors coming forward, and alleging that Joss called an actress "fat" when she got pregnant almost 20 years ago.

James Cameron is a filmmaker of Titanic and Terminator fame. He has been married five times, notably to filmmakers he's worked with and actresses who worked on his films. Some of his divorces have been attributed to affairs with other actresses under his employ. He is a notoriously angry and difficult director to work for, and on the set of The Abyss he was punched in the face by an actor who was nearly allowed to drown because Cameron didn't want to spoil the take.

Joss Whedon is effectively canceled. He has been forced to step down from a new show he was developing for HBO, and his fanbase on various Internet forums has viscerally turned against him.

James Cameron is an Academy Award winner, one of the most marketable brands in the entertainment industry, and everyone will be lining up to watch Avatar sequels over the next few years.

For me personally, the inconsistency and near-randomness of it all is just... unsettling.

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#419

Post by timthorn » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 11:26 PM UTC

fuzzer37 wrote: post #222

timthorn wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My chemistry teacher was in a top ten pop group in decades past. Could be a more common career ladder than you might think.

Wow that sounds super interesting. Did he have any cool stories?

Some fun ones. What was more interesting to me was that a couple of my contemporaries who were taught by him also then went on to be in top ten groups.

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#420

Post by WindyLakeReturn » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 11:27 PM UTC

mathgorges wrote: post #194

mensetmanusman wrote: post #61

The internet is enabling a new norm in reducing the cost of calling out behavior. Some of this is good, e.g. calling out sexual abuse. Some of this is bad, e.g. cancel culture that has no means of forgiveness.

I've seen this take quite a bit lately with respect to cancel culture and I'm a bit confused about it. Since HN is amazing, I'm hoping someone here can help me understand without it turning into a flamewar. I don't understand how "cancel culture" is substantially different from what we used to call "boycotts", just with the internet for more social lubrication. I suppose theres a risk that the allegations at the cent…

Lower threshold for one to occur. A cancel attempt can be really small. Sometimes a single person is enough.

More targeted and more often aimed at specific individuals.

As a side effect of the above, it is much easier to devolve into harassment and worse crimes than when it was a business that was being boycott.

More access to data to cancel on. Much easier to take information out of context now that social media exists.

Cancels also take on characteristics of a meme. A given behavior may lead to a cancel attempt while far worse behavior by others is ignored. There is a lack of rhyme or reason that pairs up with how some things become a meme and other similar things do not.

What is considered worthy of being canceled has increased to include many actions that the majority does not feel comfortable cancelling over, but given the previous changes a smaller group is needed to convince HR that someone should be fired.