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'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

bbc.com

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Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#401

Post by blt »

jlawson wrote: post #263
klyrs wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the past, boycotts were aimed at corporations. Not buying or consuming a specific product, or protesting that company. Cancel culture is more aimed at individuals. This isn't remotely new, though. For one very visible example in our industry, Lynn Conway got fired for coming out as transgender. Similarly, Turing was canceled for being gay. Politicians have been getting canceled for marital infidelity for most of…

Turing wasn't 'canceled' for being gay. He was prosecuted by the government according to the laws of the time, by police. Cancel culture is extra-legal and does not involve the use of laws or police. Cancel culture is also distinct from politicians and infidelity because cancel culture targets non-public individuals . Of course politicians and celebrities were always subject to public opinion; the modern era now mean…

> The McCarthy era was again a matter of government action through government processes with at least some level of transparency, democratic representation, and accountability. It was not spontaneous mobs of individuals without leaders or any kind of accountability.

How were the perpetrators of McCarthyism held accountable?

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#402

Post by rhizome »

MichaelMoser123 wrote: post #7

what interests me is: how do people maintain their integrity in such a foul environment? I mean if you can't look yourself in the mirror then how do you keep on creating anything?

Why wouldn't they be able to look themselves in the mirror?

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#403

Post by ratww »

diob wrote: post #280
yardie wrote: post #84

> the Mafia is very much a part of the music industry, I'm not too familiar with the pop side of the music industry. I dipped my toe into the Rap/R&B side of the business building websites for new artists. There were literal gangsters in the recording studios sitting across from me drinking and smoking and they made plans for every aspect of these young girls lives: what and when they could eat, who they could see, w…

This is why I don't understand the massive cultural obsession over KPOP. It's one of the grossest abusive industries, and anyone who wants to know is able to do a simple google to find out. Those fans? They could use their collective economic impact to help those folks they "love". Instead they just let them get used and abused for their fantasy.

I don't see that changing. I see K-pop fans worshipping the companies as much as they worship the artists themselves.

It's a bit dystopic. As much as the old music industry sucks, at least established artists had power.

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#404

Post by underwater »

mathgorges wrote: post #194
mensetmanusman wrote: post #61

The internet is enabling a new norm in reducing the cost of calling out behavior. Some of this is good, e.g. calling out sexual abuse. Some of this is bad, e.g. cancel culture that has no means of forgiveness.

I've seen this take quite a bit lately with respect to cancel culture and I'm a bit confused about it. Since HN is amazing, I'm hoping someone here can help me understand without it turning into a flamewar. I don't understand how "cancel culture" is substantially different from what we used to call "boycotts", just with the internet for more social lubrication. I suppose theres a risk that the allegations at the cent…

Boycotts are typically aimed at companies, not individuals.

Boycotts are conducted by people with an existing relationship with the target.

Boycotts are usually seeking to inflict financial damage, rather than primarily reputational.

Boycotts are addressing an issue directly, cancel culture is addressing systematic issues with selective enforcement.

Boycotts are trying to change the behaviour of their target, rather than make an example out of them or as punishment.

Boycotts are typically temporary, not permanent.

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#405

Post by Wohlf »

timthorn wrote: post #185
tchalla wrote: post #11

> However he left the music business in the mid-90s to become a teacher and is now president of Saint Louis School in his native Hawaii. Interesting career choice :)

My chemistry teacher was in a top ten pop group in decades past. Could be a more common career ladder than you might think.

There's a lot of teaching jobs available, and if you think about it there's a lot of skill overlap. Students are an audience you have to keep engaged.

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#406

Post by mtnGoat »

fishe wrote: post #157
beckman466 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I mean, if Jeff Besos would come to you and say: I invest into your startup $100M if I can fuck you into the ass tree times, very high percentage of HN crowd would immediately say yes. Ew. This comment is atrocious and shows your privilege. It sounds like you haven't listened to many stories of women experiencing systemic abuse, misogyny and humiliation (and who experience most of this abuse in the music industry).…

Don't equate sex work (which is what is in op's example) with rape. It simultaneously denigrates sex workers while trivializing victims of sexual violence.

im glad someone said it!

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#407

Post by genericone »

AlwaysRock wrote: post #323
MichaelMoser123 wrote: post #7

what interests me is: how do people maintain their integrity in such a foul environment? I mean if you can't look yourself in the mirror then how do you keep on creating anything?

Push those feelings and emotions deep down inside and don't think about them? Drink and use drugs often? See therapists? Probably the same way most people deal with/don't deal with shitty situations.

PWSD - Post Weinstein Stress Disorder

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#408

Post by DTE »

joe_the_user wrote: post #377

Theorist Guy Debord spoke of the Mafia and the recording industry. In the United States at least, it is already in the recording industry, as in every other activity where publicity of a product depends on a quite concentrated number of people. It is easy to apply pressure to them, with bribes and intimidation, since there is obviously quite a great deal of capital and hitmen who can not be recognized nor punished. B…

The "Society of the Spectacle" is a wonderfully enigmatic take on media and tech. Highly recommended.

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#409

Post by mathgorges »

underwater wrote: post #404
mathgorges wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen this take quite a bit lately with respect to cancel culture and I'm a bit confused about it. Since HN is amazing, I'm hoping someone here can help me understand without it turning into a flamewar. I don't understand how "cancel culture" is substantially different from what we used to call "boycotts", just with the internet for more social lubrication. I suppose theres a risk that the allegations at the cent…

Boycotts are typically aimed at companies, not individuals. Boycotts are conducted by people with an existing relationship with the target. Boycotts are usually seeking to inflict financial damage, rather than primarily reputational. Boycotts are addressing an issue directly, cancel culture is addressing systematic issues with selective enforcement. Boycotts are trying to change the behaviour of their target, rather…

I've seen a handful of people make the point on permanency, but it doesn't sit right with me.

Since theres no central authority enforcing a cancel, how can it be permanent?

How many times has Kanye West been "cancelled"? It seems to me everyone forgets about having cancelled him whenever he releases a new album ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

And it makes sense to me, since cancels are done by disconnected individuals, a cancel ought to only last as long as the cancelling collective's attention span.

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#410

Post by megameter »

fulafel wrote: post #107
api wrote: post #14

Any time you have an industry where the number of people who want to do the work vastly outstrips demand and where there are gatekeepers, you are going to get a culture of abuse. It comes in various forms: sexual or other inappropriate favors for advancement, verbal abuse, or just abusive working conditions like sweatshop hours and burnout culture.

I wonder about game development, it shares a lot of the traits.

There are definitely stories to tell.

https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2015/11/rumour_leading_jap...

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/25/tech/gaming-metoo-twitch/inde...

A good rule of thumb is to look for visible gatekeepers. Where they go the abuses follow, and if caught they only need to burnish their image enough to get their pals to rehire them.

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