'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry' • Hacker News Board

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#271

Post by mathgorges » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 8:48 PM UTC

jlawson wrote: post #263

klyrs wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the past, boycotts were aimed at corporations. Not buying or consuming a specific product, or protesting that company. Cancel culture is more aimed at individuals. This isn't remotely new, though. For one very visible example in our industry, Lynn Conway got fired for coming out as transgender. Similarly, Turing was canceled for being gay. Politicians have been getting canceled for marital infidelity for most of…

Turing wasn't 'canceled' for being gay. He was prosecuted by the government according to the laws of the time, by police. Cancel culture is extra-legal and does not involve the use of laws or police. Cancel culture is also distinct from politicians and infidelity because cancel culture targets non-public individuals . Of course politicians and celebrities were always subject to public opinion; the modern era now mean…

You’re point about cancel culture being against _private_ individuals is new to me.

Where I think of people who have been cancelled I only think about celebrities.

Reading about Justine Sacco’s story was interesting. Do you know where I can learn more about private individuals being cancelled? (Googling only brings up celebs)

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#272

Post by havelhovel » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 8:49 PM UTC

lurquer wrote: post #190

Consultant32452 wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd have sex with a rich and powerful woman in exchange for millions of dollars and I wouldn't feel the slightest bit of shame.

But would a rich and powerful woman want to have sex with you? For millions of dollars? I salute your inflated ego, sir!

The key word is “I’d” which is the contraction of “I would”, which indicates a hypothetical situation separate from the commenter’s ego or self-image.

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#273

Post by fredophile » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 8:50 PM UTC

enriquto wrote: post #252

nostromo wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Roman Polanski won an Oscar after pleading guilty to drugging and raping a 13 year old girl. Look at all these vile people applauding this villain, who couldn't accept his Oscar because he fled the country. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXnNOBj26lk In some ways I think we may have over responded (Aziz Ansari is not Harvey Weinstein), but it was shocking what behavior people were excusing from the powerful even in r…

> Look at all these vile people applauding this villain Acknowledging the artistic talent of a villain does not make you vile. Not at all. Imagine a clearer example. Imagine that somebody is on a life sentence convicted of a murder that they have commited. Do you think that this person has the right to write a book? Can this book be sent for participation at a literary contest? Can it win? Does the jury that gives th…

Your example is missing some key points. Imagine if instead of serving that life sentence your murderer fled the country before sentencing. Also imagine that instead of writing books by themselves all of their books are co-authored by other famous authors. Should you be spending your money on books that were written by a fugitive? Would it be wrong to judge their publishers and co-authors for collaborating with a fugitive?

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#274

Post by LanceH » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 8:51 PM UTC

mr-wendel wrote: post #217

mathgorges wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen this take quite a bit lately with respect to cancel culture and I'm a bit confused about it. Since HN is amazing, I'm hoping someone here can help me understand without it turning into a flamewar. I don't understand how "cancel culture" is substantially different from what we used to call "boycotts", just with the internet for more social lubrication. I suppose theres a risk that the allegations at the cent…

Great questions, and I applaud your ability to approach a sensitive topic with such open curiosity. Some arguments I'm familiar with around cancel culture are below. My goal isn't to assert them -- just enumerate some of them. People are welcome to reshape them or knock 'em down as they see fit. - The Internet is a global namespace: now you can have people anywhere in the world outraged. What used to be a localized p…

-- it is selectively enforced depending on what side someone is on -- especially with regards to forgiveness of something which happened some time ago.

-- Context is irrelevant. People are being canceled for using the wrong word when enumerating words which cannot be said. again, some people can say them, some can't.

-- it is completely out of proportion to things which do actual damage. This really bothers me. Someone saying something really bad means less to me than even the mildest act of violence

-- some places are upping the ante to claim that speech is actual violence and that if certain people aren't fired, then the workplace is unsafe

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#275

Post by Mediterraneo10 » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 8:51 PM UTC

nostromo wrote: post #221

csharptwdec19 wrote: post #198

I'll be bold and say it's the media industry has a problem. I remember family members having problems/reservations with Weinstein's behavior back in the 90's . People like Corey Feltman have been speaking up for years. But nobody cares because we're getting good cinema and TV, right? A huge part of these industries are based on 'favors' and 'networking'. Toss in the theory that you have a higher-than-baseline level o…

Roman Polanski won an Oscar after pleading guilty to drugging and raping a 13 year old girl. Look at all these vile people applauding this villain, who couldn't accept his Oscar because he fled the country. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXnNOBj26lk In some ways I think we may have over responded (Aziz Ansari is not Harvey Weinstein), but it was shocking what behavior people were excusing from the powerful even in r…

Whenever discussing Polanski's late career and the acclaim or scorn he has received, it must be mentioned that the girl in question has (later, when she grew up) expressed that she does not wish that Polanski be prosecuted or further punished by the industry.

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#276

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 8:51 PM UTC

tabtab wrote: post #186

alexashka wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Any time you have an industry where the number of people who want to do the work vastly outstrips demand and where there are gatekeepers, you are going to get a culture of abuse. You've perfectly described capitalism where every capitalist state consciously constrains the number of available jobs, maintaining a stable unemployment % among the populace. Once they've done that, people are always fighting each other a…

I would qualify this by saying many want to be in specific entertainment industries for the (potential) glamor and fame, and will sacrifice a lot to reach that goal. Many may have more practical alternatives , but are driven by a goal. This is the land of opportunity, and many dream of taking a shot at the big-time while still young and attractive. That window of time closes fast. The idea of possibly being the next…

[deleted]

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#277

Post by mathgorges » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 8:52 PM UTC

unishark wrote: post #268

mathgorges wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few people have made the point about boycotts being against organizations and cancels being against individuals. I don’t see the material difference there, what about it being an individual makes you feel it’s different? Your last point is intriguing to me. If I were to simply not watch films with Gina Carano in them anymore, would you still say I’m canceling her?

When it's against individuals it starts to become harassment and bullying, depending on the severity. These are not things we generally care about protecting organizations from, just individuals.

I see, that makes sense.

I’m still curious if me choosing to not watch films with problematic individuals in them would be considered cancelling or a boycott?

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#278

Post by heywherelogingo » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 8:52 PM UTC

mathgorges wrote: post #194

mensetmanusman wrote: post #61

The internet is enabling a new norm in reducing the cost of calling out behavior. Some of this is good, e.g. calling out sexual abuse. Some of this is bad, e.g. cancel culture that has no means of forgiveness.

I've seen this take quite a bit lately with respect to cancel culture and I'm a bit confused about it. Since HN is amazing, I'm hoping someone here can help me understand without it turning into a flamewar. I don't understand how "cancel culture" is substantially different from what we used to call "boycotts", just with the internet for more social lubrication. I suppose theres a risk that the allegations at the cent…

Boycott - don't attend talk. Cancel culture - you may not give talk.

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#279

Post by nineplay » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 8:55 PM UTC

tabtab wrote: post #215

In other words, other "skills" can partly substitute for looks. One generally moans with their eyes closed. One thing that bugs me is that it's often said "men are animals" in that they lack self control. Yet many women wear provocative clothing at work to gain favors. Such women want it both ways: the ability to tease and taunt, but a magic lid on those when they don't want advances. They want to play with fire BUT…

> Yet many women wear provocative clothing at work to gain favors.

Where are earth are you working? I've never seen anything like it in 30-odd years.

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#280

Post by diob » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 8:55 PM UTC

yardie wrote: post #84

> the Mafia is very much a part of the music industry, I'm not too familiar with the pop side of the music industry. I dipped my toe into the Rap/R&B side of the business building websites for new artists. There were literal gangsters in the recording studios sitting across from me drinking and smoking and they made plans for every aspect of these young girls lives: what and when they could eat, who they could see, w…

This is why I don't understand the massive cultural obsession over KPOP. It's one of the grossest abusive industries, and anyone who wants to know is able to do a simple google to find out. Those fans? They could use their collective economic impact to help those folks they "love". Instead they just let them get used and abused for their fantasy.