Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint • Hacker News Board

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#271

Post by dkonofalski » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 4:45 PM UTC

dijit wrote: post #206

leothecool wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its not exactly a good thing that they leveraged itunes library vendor lock-in to drive market share early on. The anti-consumer aspects of their closed ecosystem directly resulted in their success. There's no doubt about it.

Sorry, I don't buy this at all. iTunes library (at least for Books and Music) is DRM-free and has been from an early stage (though _did_ launch with DRM). I've had great success in migrating my purchased items back and forth from linux with absolutely no issue. However now they're using streaming and I'm unable to easily "own" any music anymore... or at the very least it takes you off of the easy path.

Apple wanted to launch iTunes as DRM-free but wasn't able to negotiate the licensing for it. The content providers were the ones that made the DRM a requirement.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#272

Post by Tom4hawk » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 4:45 PM UTC

dijit wrote: post #211

dralley wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is Epic fighting to reduce Apple's cut of app store proceeds (30%!) bad for customers? At worst it's customer-neutral, at best it could reduce prices.

if you dislike uPlay and Origin, you should probably side with Apple on this.

I dislike uPlay and Origin and that's why I'm avoiding them (I still have some games on them but something has to be veeery interesting for me to buy it there - I'm even willing to pay more to get same thing on Steam).

Why are we all talking about creating more stores? Shouldn't we opt into creating systems API for stores? That way you could choose store application and have products from all repositories (stores) available in there.

On most Linuxes you add repository and it doesn't matter if you use official package manager, graphical one, or some unofficial bash script. You are able to install same software.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#273

Post by judge2020 » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 4:45 PM UTC

solveit wrote: post #229

BrianGragg wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is the choice is taken away from you though. Just like he said with the game market. If you want to play Game A, you go and download/install Game A's publishing app store. If you want to then play Game B, rinse and repeat. You will be forced to use so many different app stores and won't have a choice to NOT use their app store "IF" it progresses like it has on the desktop. No proof it will/won't either.

We used to download almost every program on their own website until just a couple of years ago. It'll be fine.

It'll be fine:

https://patrickspokemonpalace.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/ie...

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/antivirus-software-...

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#274

Post by zepto » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 4:45 PM UTC

diffeomorphism wrote: post #253

zepto wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> nobody is forcing you to use the third party app store if it does exist. If you continued to use apple's curated store, you will continue to get the existing benefits. Adding an extra option can't possibly hurt you People need to stop saying this - it’s obvious completely false. As soon as other app stores are involved, there will be paid exclusives. Equivalent to Joe Rogan on Spotify, or any of the streaming video…

Not really. It would be perfectly possible to have just one store offering multiple repos/curations etc. . And in any case "but having like three stores" is an annoyance at worst. Having one grand holy arbiter of truth is a bigger problem.

> It would be perfectly possible to have just one store offering multiple repos/curations etc.

That isn’t true.

In order for it to be true you would need to explain how this would be possible if stores buy exclusive rights to apps.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#275

Post by tfehring » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 4:45 PM UTC

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #64

tfehring wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or Fortnite, for that matter? Why should I be forced to buy skins with Epic’s in-game currency instead of loading my own?

If the iPhone was an open platform, you could develop a mod that makes your Fortnite character look like whatever you want, for free. (It wouldn't show up that way for other people by default, but that's someone else's phone, not yours.)

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I'd expect that iOS being an open platform is neither necessary nor sufficient for that. As I understand it, Epic could allow users to load free custom skins today, even though it operates on a closed platform. And conversely, even if iOS were an open platform, Fortnite could remain closed-source, and I'd expect Epic could take measures (hash-validating assets on launch?) to prevent side-loading of cosmetic items.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#276

Post by jayd16 » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 4:46 PM UTC

dubcanada wrote: post #184

I can hardly wait to use Amazon App Store to install Amazon and then open up the Epic Game Store to install random game and then open up EA Game Store to install random game and then open up Facebook App Store to install Facebook and then open up the Apple App Store to install the Blizzard App Store to install Hearthstone and then go back to the Apple App Store and update the Blizzard App Store so I can get the lates…

This is a false dichotomy. Something could be set up that allows the current convenience of the Apple app store in a more federated way. The hoops are put there purposefully.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#277

Post by BrianGragg » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 4:47 PM UTC

pennaMan wrote: post #220

dubcanada wrote: post #184

I can hardly wait to use Amazon App Store to install Amazon and then open up the Epic Game Store to install random game and then open up EA Game Store to install random game and then open up Facebook App Store to install Facebook and then open up the Apple App Store to install the Blizzard App Store to install Hearthstone and then go back to the Apple App Store and update the Blizzard App Store so I can get the lates…

Before Apple blessed us with it's ground breaking technology to restrict the software you are allowed to have on your own device we did just fine getting software on our devices using a file system and the internet.

Do you remember the hardware that existed at the time, the GUI, the usability or non usability. There are two systems, IOS or Android. I really respect Apples rules and appreciate them. They stood their ground and prevented Cell Carriers from loading their phone with CRAP ware that is non-removable. Unlike android and any other flavor of phone OS that has existed. IOS when it came out was a true game changer. Its a very dominant player in the cell phone industry because of it.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#278

Post by dkonofalski » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 4:47 PM UTC

KillahBhyte wrote: post #259

FlownScepter wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A quick Google says iOS' market share is 14%. I don't understand this position at all. Google is by far and away the market leader. Their ecosystem is free and you can do just about anything in it. Their Play store's standards are utterly bare bones. The devices are cheaper. If what you want is an open source (ish) platform that you can hack on, modify, install software yourself, whatever, all of that is available to…

THIS! Say it a little louder for those in the back. I work in IT. I do not want to have a mini IT project in my pocket that I have to fiddle with. I want a device that is dependable above all else that I don't have to work on for my everyday driver. This is the same answer I provide every time someone at work ask my why I carry an Apple phone. To me the curation is part of the draw. I know that this phone will requir…

Exactly. It's the same reason rich people hire people to do their accounting and cleaning and all the other stuff they don't want to do. I want to pick up my phone and use it not mess with it every 3 days because there's something slightly off or there's a bug with the latest mod I installed.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#279

Post by StavrosK » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 4:47 PM UTC

jwagenet wrote: post #269

bluefirebrand wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have the choice to not go play a game if it isn't on a platform that you want to install. This is somewhat similar to "I don't want to buy an XBox just to play this one game". Of course the barrier there is often a monetary cost. The software platforms are free to download so there's no real barrier. But for instance, I don't particularly like Epic Games attitude around buying exclusives so I don't use their stor…

You have the choice to not use iOS and not use the Apple App Store. You might not like Apple’s attitude around their operation of the App Store so you don’t use their devices. You might have missed some great apps, but there are still many great alternatives on Android.

So it's either a choice between "not running some specific game/app whose publisher made their own app store" and "not running any iOS app because my only option is to not have an iPhone"?

I know which one gives me more choice.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#280

Post by meowkit » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 4:47 PM UTC

ekianjo wrote: post #252

SCHiM wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You install those yourself you know. I'd rather have a choice than not. I feel your pain in the sense that that I think user UX will take a hit, but I think that's less important than breaking the monopoly of the current app store. For example, I can't find apps with pornography or other types of things the high overlords at apple or Google have deemed inappropriate for me to have. That's bad. Apparently apps like Ma…

> You install those yourself you know. I'd rather have a choice than not. yes and No. When some games are "exclusives" to a certain store, if you want to play such games you end up having to install every store in existence which is not very consumer friendly. It would be better for stores to have every game possible, just like at the time of good old physical retail. It's not like there were Wallmart exclusive games…

> It's not like there were Wallmart exclusive games, right?

Either you’re younger than me or you’ve forgotten about the pre-order content exclusives from different stores.

If physical retailers had the marketshare that online distribution now has I’m sure they would have done exclusive games. If you have smaller game devs and no cost of disc manufacturing (ie download only) its easier to make exclusivity deals.