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Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

reuters.com

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Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#251

Post by dkonofalski »

pennaMan wrote: post #220
dubcanada wrote: post #184

I can hardly wait to use Amazon App Store to install Amazon and then open up the Epic Game Store to install random game and then open up EA Game Store to install random game and then open up Facebook App Store to install Facebook and then open up the Apple App Store to install the Blizzard App Store to install Hearthstone and then go back to the Apple App Store and update the Blizzard App Store so I can get the lates…

Before Apple blessed us with it's ground breaking technology to restrict the software you are allowed to have on your own device we did just fine getting software on our devices using a file system and the internet.

You may have but the rest of the world did so with a lot of hand-wringing and a boatload of viruses, toolbars, malware, and everything else.

As someone who has worked in IT and in tech support, I get and agree with what Apple has done.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#252

Post by ekianjo »

SCHiM wrote: post #197
dubcanada wrote: post #184

I can hardly wait to use Amazon App Store to install Amazon and then open up the Epic Game Store to install random game and then open up EA Game Store to install random game and then open up Facebook App Store to install Facebook and then open up the Apple App Store to install the Blizzard App Store to install Hearthstone and then go back to the Apple App Store and update the Blizzard App Store so I can get the lates…

You install those yourself you know. I'd rather have a choice than not. I feel your pain in the sense that that I think user UX will take a hit, but I think that's less important than breaking the monopoly of the current app store. For example, I can't find apps with pornography or other types of things the high overlords at apple or Google have deemed inappropriate for me to have. That's bad. Apparently apps like Ma…

> You install those yourself you know. I'd rather have a choice than not.

yes and No. When some games are "exclusives" to a certain store, if you want to play such games you end up having to install every store in existence which is not very consumer friendly. It would be better for stores to have every game possible, just like at the time of good old physical retail. It's not like there were Wallmart exclusive games, right?

But to be fair, devs are almost as much to blame as store owners for this situation.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#253

Post by diffeomorphism »

zepto wrote: post #188
chii wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Either "third party" app stores will also pay to support this ecosystem, in which case Epic will be paying the same amount either way how did you work out that the amount apple gets paid (30%) is the "correct" amount? The only way to find out is via competition. But due to the monopolistic powers of apple, there cannot be competition on their platform. Thus, we do not know the true cost of maintaining this platform…

> nobody is forcing you to use the third party app store if it does exist. If you continued to use apple's curated store, you will continue to get the existing benefits. Adding an extra option can't possibly hurt you People need to stop saying this - it’s obvious completely false. As soon as other app stores are involved, there will be paid exclusives. Equivalent to Joe Rogan on Spotify, or any of the streaming video…

Not really. It would be perfectly possible to have just one store offering multiple repos/curations etc. . And in any case "but having like three stores" is an annoyance at worst. Having one grand holy arbiter of truth is a bigger problem.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#254

Post by africanboy »

ben_w wrote: post #84
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What about platforms like Playstation or the computers built into Teslas etc, should we allow sideloading on those? I think we should, yes. Not necessarily by default, but there should be a switch advanced users can flip. Re: Tesla, there is in fact a long history of people fixing and modifying their cars. Why not the computers in those cars?

Hm. Hypothetical: if you modify the software in a Tesla, and your modification allows a hacker to remote control it, and this power is used to commit vehicular homicide, how much of the burden of responsibility do you have? I’m not a lawyer, so while I can throw out phrases like “endangering others through negligence”, I don’t know what the threshold is or even if that’s the right concept in this case. With regards t…

> Hypothetical: if you modify the software in a Tesla, and your modification allows a hacker to remote control it, and this power is used to commit vehicular homicide, how much of the burden of responsibility do you have?

Hypothetically: a friend borrows your car, but you didn't fix the break fluid leak, and he runs over someone.

Who's at fault?

> With regards to phones however, I explicitly want the devices heavily locked down by law, to the extent that other people should not be allowed to put random software on them

that's the definition of a phone.

IMO Apple is to blame for creating the "smart" phones that can run arbitrary software.

They have created the problem that they are allegedly fixing by imposing walled garden on their users.

It is like handing guns to kids and then locking them up in their rooms so they are safe.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#255

Post by aardvarkr »

ahiknsr wrote: post #185
ericmay wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Epic demands Apple do thing = bad for Apple (good for Epic) no way Epic demands Apple do a thing = bad for Apple, bad for customers (good for Epic) > Apple demand Facebook do thing = Good for Apple (bad for FB) yes way Apple demands Facebook do a thing = Good for Apple, good for customers (bad for Facebook) As a customer in these equations, I'm siding with Apple. > That's the very definition of "competition" someth…

>Epic demands Apple do a thing = bad for Apple, bad for customers (good for Epic) not bad for all customers. I would like to side-load third party apps on my Iphone. Remember when app store banned a hn reader app because it showed Covid-related submissions[1] [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24410652

Idk about you but I’ve been sideloading apps for years on my iPhone. There’s an entire subreddit for it if you’re really that interested.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#256

Post by prpl »

dleslie wrote: post #32

I'm not excited by the proposition of either party coming out on top. I hope the EU sees the forest for the trees and understands that the situation is a lot more complicated than either party would claim. Apple is acting as a leader in reducing the footprint of general computing hardware; albeit their devices have among the longest service lives, they continue to be further restricted in their operation over time. T…

I can’t tell my 12 year old stepson to stop playing fortnite because it’s a large part of his social life in connecting with family on another continent. At the same time, he has spent nearly every dollar that has come his way in the last 8 months on the game, talks about it all the time, watches youtube videos when he can’t play Switch, etc...

I am happy he has a medium to socialize but the anxiety he gets from this machine is intense.

I generally advocate for users rights, but I am siding with Apple on this one. There is no monopoly - Epic has many (mobile) platforms to distribute their games/platform, including switch and android, that I can’t imagine the EU sides with them - especially in europe where iPhones don’t constitute the same market share.

However, what I would advocate for is a possibility for officially rooting your iPhone (with lots of big scary messages along the way) and mutual app store exclusion.

If Epic wants to run their own app store, great, but I don’t believe Apple should be obligated to make it comfortable.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#257

Post by dkonofalski »

onion2k wrote: post #209
dubcanada wrote: post #184

I can hardly wait to use Amazon App Store to install Amazon and then open up the Epic Game Store to install random game and then open up EA Game Store to install random game and then open up Facebook App Store to install Facebook and then open up the Apple App Store to install the Blizzard App Store to install Hearthstone and then go back to the Apple App Store and update the Blizzard App Store so I can get the lates…

I hate the fact I have to use Apple TV to watch Servant, Disney+ to watch The Mandalorian, Netflix to watch Stranger Things, and Amazon Prime Video to watch The Boys, and HBO to watch Game of Thrones, and so on. I'd much rather all of those other companies gave Apple a 30% cut of their revenue.

I was arguing with someone earlier today about the "sweetheart" deal that Amazon supposedly got from Apple and it cracks me up that we have these situations live in the world and the only company working to make this easier for end users is Apple. The fact that Amazon (and other video services!) can rent out movies within their platform as long as they allow for integration with the Apple TV app is a net benefit to consumers, imo.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#258

Post by lux »

dubcanada wrote: post #184

I can hardly wait to use Amazon App Store to install Amazon and then open up the Epic Game Store to install random game and then open up EA Game Store to install random game and then open up Facebook App Store to install Facebook and then open up the Apple App Store to install the Blizzard App Store to install Hearthstone and then go back to the Apple App Store and update the Blizzard App Store so I can get the lates…

Instead of making the split at the app store level, enabling other payment processors within the iOS app store would solve most of these issues without creating a UX nightmare. That said, I wouldn't mind competition at the app store level too.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#259

Post by KillahBhyte »

FlownScepter wrote: post #198
kevingadd wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the past US regulators have not agreed with your reasoning here. They broke up the original big telephone companies, for example.

A quick Google says iOS' market share is 14%. I don't understand this position at all. Google is by far and away the market leader. Their ecosystem is free and you can do just about anything in it. Their Play store's standards are utterly bare bones. The devices are cheaper. If what you want is an open source (ish) platform that you can hack on, modify, install software yourself, whatever, all of that is available to…

THIS! Say it a little louder for those in the back. I work in IT. I do not want to have a mini IT project in my pocket that I have to fiddle with. I want a device that is dependable above all else that I don't have to work on for my everyday driver. This is the same answer I provide every time someone at work ask my why I carry an Apple phone. To me the curation is part of the draw. I know that this phone will require the least amount of my attention to keep it working day in, day out. That is the feature I wanted most.

But every iOS post I read is along the lines of make it like android, and I have the same prevailing thought. Why?? I would not own a MacOS machine, I wouldn't like it. But I don't feel the need to get on every Mac discussion complaining it should be more like Linux. The fact the differences exist is a good thing.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#260

Post by leothecool »

dijit wrote: post #206
leothecool wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its not exactly a good thing that they leveraged itunes library vendor lock-in to drive market share early on. The anti-consumer aspects of their closed ecosystem directly resulted in their success. There's no doubt about it.

Sorry, I don't buy this at all. iTunes library (at least for Books and Music) is DRM-free and has been from an early stage (though _did_ launch with DRM). I've had great success in migrating my purchased items back and forth from linux with absolutely no issue. However now they're using streaming and I'm unable to easily "own" any music anymore... or at the very least it takes you off of the easy path.

Right. At launch, leveraging ipod marketshare was key. After those same users got locked in to the app-store, the music library lock in became less important. So they started out by letting you pay extra money to break out of their walled garden. I'm pretty sure purchases made in the ipod era are still drm encumbered today.
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