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Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

reuters.com

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Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#121

Post by kevingadd »

no_wizard wrote: post #105

It’s all about money. I don’t think epic wants a new App Store. In fact I do t think the majority of developers with legitimate complaints with the App Store want competing app stores. They all want, from what I can boil down to, the majority of the time, two things: 1. Control over payments (to cut out the 30%) 2. More control over releases and updates (particularly upgrade pricing) I think if Apple caved in on thes…

One argument in favor of multiple App Stores is that Apple has historically been very aggressive about globally banning entire product categories they dislike or apps that offend the governments of foreign countries. Apple can continue to exercise this discretion without harming consumer choice if they offer sideloading for end users (or at least make their browser more capable, with full support for PWAs and modern web APIs)

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#122

Post by dpkonofa »

kevingadd wrote: post #103
dpkonofa wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by that? The rules apply to Amazon just the same as to anyone else.

Amazon got a special carve-out after a long dispute with Apple. https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/3/21206400/apple-tax-amazon-... This provides additional weight to Epic's arguments. They have repeatedly said they don't want a special deal for Fortnite, they want every developer to have access to either alternate distribution methods or a smaller cut.

That's not a special deal, though. Just because a reporter didn't know about doesn't mean it was special for Amazon. Your own article even mentions other providers that were already using that and, most importantly, it only applies to renewals of existing subscriptions that were started outside the app. It can't be exclusive to Amazon if other platforms are also already taking advantage of that same process.

New purchases follow the same 30/15 rule as every other developer.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#123

Post by Humdeee »

dd36 wrote: post #94
aboringusername wrote: post #11

It feels a bit hypocritical when Apple laughs at FB for complaining about their new tracking pop-up yet when the shoe's on the other foot and Apple may actually have to compete on its own platform they double down and defend their right to be judge, jury and executioner. Apple competing with third party app stores on iOS is going to be amazing. No computer platform should be allowed to prevent sideloading or other st…

Why does there need to be multiple app stores? That sounds terrible. Apple just needs to stop demanding huge chunks from app revenue.

Apple recently introduced the App Store Small Business Program, slashing their app revenue taken by 50% to accommodate the 'small players' (<1 million annual revenue).

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#124

Post by dpkonofa »

adamdusty wrote: post #96
dpkonofa wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by that? The rules apply to Amazon just the same as to anyone else.

Do they? All in app purchases have to be made through Apple's payment system. If you can buy amazon prime through the app then Apple should be taking a 30% cut. They might already do that, I have no idea, but it seems unlikely Amazon would agree to it.

You can't buy Amazon Prime through the app. What people are referring to is the fact that existing subscriptions are allowed to renew without the 30% cut. People are misframing that as an exception for Amazon even though there are several platforms in the same situation that already benefit from the same policy that Amazon now agrees to.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#125

Post by dpkonofa »

mhh__ wrote: post #108
dpkonofa wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Apple have hundreds of billions in cash do you actually believe they're going to put ads in their services? That's irrelevant. The issue in question is one of principle, not whether or not someone is in a certain position at this moment in time and can or can't or will or won't do something. If Apple suddenly lost all of it's money, you'd then be ok with them putting ads into their services?

> if Apple suddenly lost all of it's money Well no-one would be using it so I wouldn't care all that much - Apple losing all their money would basically require giving away iPhones for free with 0 revenue given apples financials.

So then your argument is just anti-Apple and not actually based on any principles...

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#126

Post by chungus_khan »

flenserboy wrote: post #38

I can't shake the feeling that Epic is a puppet, being used as a wedge to hash security on iOS devices. As much as it would be nice to have more control over one's iPhone, the horror of the Android marketplace is enough to give a body more than a little pause.

The contents of the Play Store have nothing to do with Android's ability to sideload.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#127

Post by justapassenger »

aboringusername wrote: post #11

It feels a bit hypocritical when Apple laughs at FB for complaining about their new tracking pop-up yet when the shoe's on the other foot and Apple may actually have to compete on its own platform they double down and defend their right to be judge, jury and executioner. Apple competing with third party app stores on iOS is going to be amazing. No computer platform should be allowed to prevent sideloading or other st…

Apple isn’t users friend, or defender of the people.

It’s biggest company in the word, that tries to make most amount of money by monopolizing markets. And privacy sells nowadays, so they exploit that to grow even more. Of course users get something in return, but that’s not the reason why do that.

It’s one of the greatest PR campaigns of modern world, to have people believe that biggest company in the world cares about them and has their backs and interests. It’s almost Orwellian.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#128

Post by kevingadd »

covercash wrote: post #106
m12k wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those consumers should have every right to stay in that sandbox. And the rest of us should have the right to use a different one.

You do have that right, it’s called Android.

You only have that right in advance, though. If I get an iPhone and buy a bunch of software on it and then 3 years later Apple Changes The Terms Of Our Relationship, I don't have any ability to migrate my data (let alone my purchases) to another platform. Not only do I have to buy a new smartphone, I have to re-buy my apps even if those apps are available on Android. Even if the app's developer wants to give me the app for free on other platforms, they can't, because Apple refuses to give developers any information on their customers. This came up previously when some OS X software had to leave the Mac App Store. Likewise any music or videos I bought on iTunes won't migrate over to my Android phone - in the era of physical media this wasn't a problem, you could pop your CD or DVD into any player you want so you had true freedom.

Windows and Mac and Linux environments are not sandboxed like this either. All my data is files in folders, and I can export it as I like to another machine.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#129

Post by [deleted] »

darknessmonk wrote: post #37

> Apple competing with third party app stores on iOS is going to be amazing. No computer platform should be allowed to prevent sideloading or other stores from competing. The walled garden is a selling point, a feature - I don't care about sideloading at all. You want to sideload? Grab and Android.

[deleted]

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#130

Post by Wowfunhappy »

dpkonofa wrote: post #124
adamdusty wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do they? All in app purchases have to be made through Apple's payment system. If you can buy amazon prime through the app then Apple should be taking a 30% cut. They might already do that, I have no idea, but it seems unlikely Amazon would agree to it.

You can't buy Amazon Prime through the app. What people are referring to is the fact that existing subscriptions are allowed to renew without the 30% cut. People are misframing that as an exception for Amazon even though there are several platforms in the same situation that already benefit from the same policy that Amazon now agrees to.

Actually, I'm referring to the fact that Amazon Prime members can rent digital videos without Apple getting a cut. See the Verge article kevingadd posted below.
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