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Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

reuters.com

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Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#101

Post by kqvamxurcagg »

jonwinstanley wrote: post #17
aboringusername wrote: post #11

It feels a bit hypocritical when Apple laughs at FB for complaining about their new tracking pop-up yet when the shoe's on the other foot and Apple may actually have to compete on its own platform they double down and defend their right to be judge, jury and executioner. Apple competing with third party app stores on iOS is going to be amazing. No computer platform should be allowed to prevent sideloading or other st…

> No computer platform should be allowed to prevent sideloading or other stores from competing What about platforms like Playstation or the computers built into Teslas etc, should we allow sideloading on those? How do you define a platform?

Apple's iPhone is now systemically important to commerce, business and consumers unlike Playstation and Tesla. Given their size and scale they should be subject to higher standards.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#102

Post by the_duke »

aboringusername wrote: post #11

It feels a bit hypocritical when Apple laughs at FB for complaining about their new tracking pop-up yet when the shoe's on the other foot and Apple may actually have to compete on its own platform they double down and defend their right to be judge, jury and executioner. Apple competing with third party app stores on iOS is going to be amazing. No computer platform should be allowed to prevent sideloading or other st…

> This isn't the case on Android.

I'd argue that it is till the case on Android.

Yes, alternate stores are possible, but they are severely handicapped. First, manual APK install has to be enabled in obscure settings that come with a "scary" warning. Then they can't provide auto-updates but require a manual confirmation for each version update.

Epic gave up on running their own store on Android due to the difficulties.

I do think that regulators need to force Apples hand - not being in control of your own device is not acceptable.

But even then most business would remain on the official stores. We also need legislation to curb the excessive fees charged by both Google and Apple.

A few years ago the EU limited credit card transaction fees to 0.3% or a fixed maximum, whichever is lower.

A similar cap is needed for app stores.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#103

Post by kevingadd »

dpkonofa wrote: post #81
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #13

> Apple said its rules applied equally to all developers and that Epic had violated them. All developers except Amazon, they mean. Now that it has happened, I'm actually surprised it took Epic this long to file suit in the EU. Given Europe's stronger antitrust enforcement and general skepticism of tech giants, Epic likely has a stronger case there than in the US. If I were Epic, I'd have wanted to have both lawsuits…

What do you mean by that? The rules apply to Amazon just the same as to anyone else.

Amazon got a special carve-out after a long dispute with Apple.

https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/3/21206400/apple-tax-amazon-...

This provides additional weight to Epic's arguments. They have repeatedly said they don't want a special deal for Fortnite, they want every developer to have access to either alternate distribution methods or a smaller cut.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#104

Post by cordite »

parthdesai wrote: post #47
tfehring wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or Fortnite, for that matter? Why should I be forced to buy skins with Epic’s in-game currency instead of loading my own?

Fortnite is a free game, I pay to own my iPhone.

People pay to own their tractors, but yet they can't repair them.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#105

Post by no_wizard »

It’s all about money. I don’t think epic wants a new App Store. In fact I do t think the majority of developers with legitimate complaints with the App Store want competing app stores.

They all want, from what I can boil down to, the majority of the time, two things:

1. Control over payments (to cut out the 30%)

2. More control over releases and updates (particularly upgrade pricing)

I think if Apple caved in on these all this would go away.

Likely, that’s about all we will see from a successful lawsuit too.

It’s never been about the App Store being the only game in town. It’s all about reviews, fees, release schedules and pricing mechanics. I don’t think the consumer wins if there are multiple App Stores. I do think the consumer and smaller developers may win if there is some shift around the above issues, though

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#106

Post by covercash »

m12k wrote: post #68
AYBABTME wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if consumers like it like that: one sandbox curated by Apple?

Those consumers should have every right to stay in that sandbox. And the rest of us should have the right to use a different one.

You do have that right, it’s called Android.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#107

Post by throwaway3699 »

Spivak wrote: post #21
ehvatum wrote: post #4

There is room for 3rd party app stores. Epic will argue that Apple does an absolutely ghastly terrible job of curating the Apple app store, as Apple really has little incentive not to suck completely. The EU court will agree. Apple will spend a year or two saying “it can’t be done”, then issue a signing certificate to Epic.

I still don't see a way to resolve the problem that software isn't fungible and so multiple app stores are only good for publisher choice but not user choice. Without the requirement that all apps able to be purchased on all stores at similar prices and still under Apple's review process then apps will flock to the store that makes them the most money and fewest rules and users will have no choice but to acquire that…

GOG is an exception there, given that all their games are DRM-free, and I know many people find Steam/Valve to genuinely be a good steward of the industry. The rest of the stores - plenty of peer pressure if your friends want you to play a specific title with them on those platforms, leaving little choice.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#108

Post by mhh__ »

dpkonofa wrote: post #89
mhh__ wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What ecosystem - i.e. what ecosystem is there that isn't already paid for by the billions and billions Apple make every year? Apple have hundreds of billions in cash do you actually believe they're going to put ads in their services?

>Apple have hundreds of billions in cash do you actually believe they're going to put ads in their services? That's irrelevant. The issue in question is one of principle, not whether or not someone is in a certain position at this moment in time and can or can't or will or won't do something. If Apple suddenly lost all of it's money, you'd then be ok with them putting ads into their services?

> if Apple suddenly lost all of it's money

Well no-one would be using it so I wouldn't care all that much - Apple losing all their money would basically require giving away iPhones for free with 0 revenue given apples financials.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#109

Post by cryptonym »

dleslie wrote: post #32

I'm not excited by the proposition of either party coming out on top. I hope the EU sees the forest for the trees and understands that the situation is a lot more complicated than either party would claim. Apple is acting as a leader in reducing the footprint of general computing hardware; albeit their devices have among the longest service lives, they continue to be further restricted in their operation over time. T…

> So I kind of hope that the EU allows third party stores, but allows Apple to place curation constraints on the sort of purchases that are available to users.

If we follow the logic of Phones providing access to a market that must remain "free" and allow competition, then constraints on purchase might be something decided by society/people/governments more than a single private company?

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#110

Post by chungus_khan »

dieortin wrote: post #80
mywittyname wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't care about sideloading? Don't sideload, just use the Apple Store. Users like you have zero skin in the game. Nothing in your workflow will change, other than you might get cheaper applications.

Until you’re forced to download the FB App Store for Facebook apps, the Epic Games store for theirs, the Google App Store for Google applications... It’s not true users who don’t want to side load have zero skin in the game. The entire ecosystem would suffer.

Why hasn't it on Android then?
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