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Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

reuters.com

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Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#41

Post by ed25519FUUU »

dleslie wrote: post #14
aboringusername wrote: post #11

It feels a bit hypocritical when Apple laughs at FB for complaining about their new tracking pop-up yet when the shoe's on the other foot and Apple may actually have to compete on its own platform they double down and defend their right to be judge, jury and executioner. Apple competing with third party app stores on iOS is going to be amazing. No computer platform should be allowed to prevent sideloading or other st…

On the one hand, Apple is acting as a store curator and demanding that its customers be made aware of tracking software. On the other hand, Apple is acting as a platform owner and demanding that they continue to act as the sole store curator on their platform. I do not see the hypocrisy.

> On the one hand, Apple is acting as a store curator and demanding that its customers be made aware of tracking software.

Can’t this still be true for the App Store though?

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#43

Post by ericmay »

efraim wrote: post #26
jonwinstanley wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No computer platform should be allowed to prevent sideloading or other stores from competing What about platforms like Playstation or the computers built into Teslas etc, should we allow sideloading on those? How do you define a platform?

General purpose computing. A game console or Tesla computer is not made for general programs, they have specific purposes. It's also a case of "you know it when you see it", iPhone wasn't a big platform when it launched but now it's the primary platform for many peoples computer needs, it should not be exclusively run by a private company.

> it should not be exclusively run by a private company.

Why? If you don't like the iPhone there are other general purpose computers that you can use, ranging from a laptop to a Pixel smart phone...

> General purpose computing.

If you want to call it a general purpose computer, then you also have to include tablets, laptops, desktop computers, and Android phones. All of a sudden there is quite a bit of choice for customers here. To name a few:

Google

Microsoft

Samsung

LG

Dell

HP

Huawei

Amazon

...

The fact that Apple may very well make the best one, doesn't mean there isn't competition or that it isn't a competitive market.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#44

Post by mhh__ »

null_object wrote: post #29
pier25 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or Linux for that matter. Or even macOS.

You can load apps on macOS from anywhere you like.

Aren't apple increasing not liking you doing that? e.g. MacOS phoning home to Apple on program startup.

I doubt Apple would ever truly stop you but there is a subtle level of friction that can't necessarily be assumed of the user.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#45

Post by mywittyname »

mikepurvis wrote: post #24
jonwinstanley wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No computer platform should be allowed to prevent sideloading or other stores from competing What about platforms like Playstation or the computers built into Teslas etc, should we allow sideloading on those? How do you define a platform?

TBH I wouldn't be at all surprised if Microsoft is gearing up for this fight with Sony, given that every Xbox Series does in fact allow sideloading once placed into the included-and-supported developer mode.

MS is ahead of the curve here. Rather than trying to combat homebrew, they are embracing it within some predefined boundaries.

The 360 allowed for homebrew as well. I think they learned a lot from XBMC.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#46

Post by yladiz »

Spivak wrote: post #21
ehvatum wrote: post #4

There is room for 3rd party app stores. Epic will argue that Apple does an absolutely ghastly terrible job of curating the Apple app store, as Apple really has little incentive not to suck completely. The EU court will agree. Apple will spend a year or two saying “it can’t be done”, then issue a signing certificate to Epic.

I still don't see a way to resolve the problem that software isn't fungible and so multiple app stores are only good for publisher choice but not user choice. Without the requirement that all apps able to be purchased on all stores at similar prices and still under Apple's review process then apps will flock to the store that makes them the most money and fewest rules and users will have no choice but to acquire that…

Yeah, this isn't really about "choice", it's about control. If there are exclusives on, for example, an iOS Epic store, your choice isn't really a choice, you have to install it from the Epic store.

I'm curious how this will play out in general. Android already allows side-loaded applications, and Epic allowed people to install Fortnite outside of the Play Store and it did poorly, so they begrudgingly added Fortnite back into the Play Store, so I imagine it would be the same thing on iOS. Arguably it could be even more challenging for others because Apple would likely not be forced to treat non-App Store stores the same as the App Store in some ways, which would very likely lead to a situation where users would get popups when when install the new app store and when they load an app, similar to how running a nonsigned program works on Mac now.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#47

Post by parthdesai »

tfehring wrote: post #33
jonwinstanley wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No computer platform should be allowed to prevent sideloading or other stores from competing What about platforms like Playstation or the computers built into Teslas etc, should we allow sideloading on those? How do you define a platform?

Or Fortnite, for that matter? Why should I be forced to buy skins with Epic’s in-game currency instead of loading my own?

Fortnite is a free game, I pay to own my iPhone.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#48

Post by toyg »

aboringusername wrote: post #11

It feels a bit hypocritical when Apple laughs at FB for complaining about their new tracking pop-up yet when the shoe's on the other foot and Apple may actually have to compete on its own platform they double down and defend their right to be judge, jury and executioner. Apple competing with third party app stores on iOS is going to be amazing. No computer platform should be allowed to prevent sideloading or other st…

> It's more disappointing it takes 10 years for regulators to step-in

To be fair, until it was limited to a small section of the population, it wasn't a big deal. So rich people want to live in walled gardens, so what? But when you start talking about 20% or 30% of the whole population, then it's a significant problem. It took a bit for Apple to reach that level but they are definitely there now, and since they don't seem to be willing to change, they have to be forced to accept that it has to happen.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#49

Post by mhh__ »

dleslie wrote: post #32

I'm not excited by the proposition of either party coming out on top. I hope the EU sees the forest for the trees and understands that the situation is a lot more complicated than either party would claim. Apple is acting as a leader in reducing the footprint of general computing hardware; albeit their devices have among the longest service lives, they continue to be further restricted in their operation over time. T…

Why should I believe that Apple actually care in anyway about their users? Fortnite and co. are going to be regulated severely in the coming years - probably not by Apple.

Have they not hosted Fortnite right up until they wouldn't pay their rent?

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#50

Post by mywittyname »

darknessmonk wrote: post #37

> Apple competing with third party app stores on iOS is going to be amazing. No computer platform should be allowed to prevent sideloading or other stores from competing. The walled garden is a selling point, a feature - I don't care about sideloading at all. You want to sideload? Grab and Android.

If you don't care about sideloading? Don't sideload, just use the Apple Store.

Users like you have zero skin in the game. Nothing in your workflow will change, other than you might get cheaper applications.

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