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New model could explain old cholesterol mystery

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131–140 of 148 posts

Re: New model could explain old cholesterol mystery

#131
post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do we know that people with hypercholesterolemia don't just have a heart/blood vessel/metabolic defect that also causes high cholesterol?

By definition, Familial Hypercholesterolemia is a genetic defect of the receptor responsible for clearing cholesterol-containing droplets from the blood.

I understand that, but my point was that it's in principle possible that the exact effects of a particular genetic disease are hard to discover. Serum cholesterol is easy to measure, so it could be just the easiest to notice sign of a more complex metabolic modification induced by the specific genes. I doubt we are at a point where we can look at a gene and say exactly what it affects in the entire body.

Re: New model could explain old cholesterol mystery

#132
> When we eat more polyunsaturated fat, the cells incorporate more polyunsaturated fat into the cell membrane, making it more fluid.

That seems like an absolutely wild idea to me. So the cell just grabs whatever lipids arrive from the diet and turns them into phospholipids and puts them in the membrane? I know nothing about this process, but my biochemist's intuition tells me to be skeptical. Is there research on this?

Re: New model could explain old cholesterol mystery

#133
NICE no longer specifies target cholesterol levels for people with diabetes. Your doctors will use a calculator, called QRISK2, to work out your risk of heart disease using a number of factors such as age, BMI, gender, blood pressure levels, cholesterol levels and which type of diabetes you have.

If you want a general guide of how healthy your cholesterol levels are, find out your total cholesterol-to-HDL ratio

To find this, take your total cholesterol figure and divide it by your HDL figure. A result of less than four is healthy

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/Diabetes-and-cholesterol.html

Re: New model could explain old cholesterol mystery

#134
post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, we know they don't eat like a pig, stocking their mouth with burgers and fries and deep fried mars bars. That's something...

A burger can be healthy.

Stocking one's mouth with many, though, not.

Re: New model could explain old cholesterol mystery

#135
post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A burger can be healthy.

Stocking one's mouth with many, though, not.

I would actually argue that "stuffing my face" with 2 A&W lettuce wrapped uncle burgers (sandwich only, no combo) is healthier than having one regular mama burger with fries, lots of ketchup and a half litre of coke (or whatever sugary drink you prefer).

(This is the keto vs. regular diet example from before and showcases exactly what I was saying. You attribute value to one particular diet, while I might have another, ideal, healthy diet in my mind. After said 2 uncle burgers I don't have to eat again for a _very_ long time. On keto I've gone without eating for a day easy without feeling hundry, while I'd want an early dinner after the other option mentioned for lunch because my stomach is aching for more food)

Re: New model could explain old cholesterol mystery

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's still only evidence of correlation, not causation.

No we actually understand the underlying mechanisms here, to a decent extent. In case of people who have a high level LDL cholesterol, the phagocytes - the scavenger cells in blood consume more cholesterol particles in general. The result is cholesterol is more likely to stick to the walls of affected blood vessels. This is one of the most thoroughly researched topics in medicine. Does it mean high LDL will always re…

The "thoroughness" of the research doesn't matter much when it's based upon a false assumption or two.

You describe one mechanism by which cholesterol could cause heart disease. As you say, there is lots of evidence that it happens -- in an unknown subset of the population, with defining characteristics that nobody's managed to figure out.

The science just isn't there. And the financial success of statins seems to really get in the way of people wanting to work it all out.

Re: New model could explain old cholesterol mystery

#137
post #85

A: saturated fats B: LDL cholesterol C: heart disease studies show saturated fats increase LDL cholesterol A => B People who get heart disease are more likely to have high LDL cholesterol C => B > Researchers have thus drawn a logical conclusion: a lot of saturated fat in the diet produces more cholesterol, which in turn increases the risk of heart disease. A => B /\ B => C > But this has been surprisingly difficult…

If I'm reading you correctly - this is the classic false syllogism?

I think so.

The author wrote "People who get heart disease are more likely to have high LDL cholesterol". Had she written "People who have high LDL cholesterol are more likely to get heart disease" then the argument would have been valid.

Re: New model could explain old cholesterol mystery

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's what the science says so far. It's amazing that since there are gaps in our knowledge people readily jump over to woo woo fad diets.

If the epic, explosive scale of obesity, diabetes and heart disease under the modern government recommended high-carbohydrate, low-fat diet doesn't give you pause, then.... I just don't know what to say.

Those aren't their recommendations.

https://www.dietaryguidelines.gov/sites/default/files/2020-1...

Re: New model could explain old cholesterol mystery

#139
post #5

I am close with someone who has chronic high cholesterol, in addition to a 6-pack abs. She exercises 5x/week and eats .5kg of animal products/week at most, usually white meat. She just visited her heart Dr and was told that her cholesterol is too high and that she needs to cut out animal products entirely as a next step. I am thinking...is this really the modern answer to someone's high cholesterol if they consistent…

I've always had high-ish cholesterol. I dramatically cut down on carbs and animal protein (no meat at all, but still some dairy and eggs) which resulted in only modest improvement to LDL.

I do cardio at least 3 times a week and train a form of calisthenics (push ups, pull ups, dips, etc) at least three days a week.

It doesn't really do much for the numbers. I think some people just draw the short straw on cholesterol.

The trick to it is that cholesterol is only one of many subtle risk factors in cardiovascular health. As this article suggests, it's obviously not the case that high cholesterol is universally associated with worse outcomes, and there's no guarantee that improving the test scores will provide any benefit for an otherwise healthy patient. Does the doctor look at the whole person and their exercise regimen and conclude it's not worth medicating for the cholesterol risk? Or do they consider that lowering cholesterol can improve risk even further and so recommend medication? There's actually a protocol here that includes cholesterol as only one factor.

Ideally, a model like the one in this article could help better understand who to actually treat. We know cholesterol is a reliable proxy for risk at population levels, but if it could be ruled out for individual parents that would be very helpful.

Re: New model could explain old cholesterol mystery

#140
post #5

I am close with someone who has chronic high cholesterol, in addition to a 6-pack abs. She exercises 5x/week and eats .5kg of animal products/week at most, usually white meat. She just visited her heart Dr and was told that her cholesterol is too high and that she needs to cut out animal products entirely as a next step. I am thinking...is this really the modern answer to someone's high cholesterol if they consistent…

Did she consider sugar intake? https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/09/13/493739074...
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