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New model could explain old cholesterol mystery

sciencenorway.no

21–30 of 148 posts

Re: New model could explain old cholesterol mystery

#21
The idea that animal products are unhealthy seems to be misguided.

It seems more likely that the supposedly "heart healthy" seed oils are causing heart disease.

The Carnivore Code has some very good insights (at least in my opinion) [1]

And this talk on how seed oils are destroying our health is also pretty interesting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kGnfXXIKZM

[1] https://www.amazon.com/Carnivore-Code-Unlocking-Returning-An...

Re: New model could explain old cholesterol mystery

#22
post #5

I am close with someone who has chronic high cholesterol, in addition to a 6-pack abs. She exercises 5x/week and eats .5kg of animal products/week at most, usually white meat. She just visited her heart Dr and was told that her cholesterol is too high and that she needs to cut out animal products entirely as a next step. I am thinking...is this really the modern answer to someone's high cholesterol if they consistent…

Both my parents are vegan, thin, active, eat basically the same things but one has "bad" cholesterol numbers and one has good. We know so little!

Re: New model could explain old cholesterol mystery

#23
PROBLEM #1: High saturated fat diet correlated to high serum cholesterol

ANSWER #1: Serum cholesterol is transferred back-and-forth between the blood and cell membranes to maintain a constant cell rigidity; normal behavior

PROBLEM #2: High serum cholesterol correlated to cardiovascular disease

ANSWER #2: Chronic inflammation associated with metabolic disorders upsets the various regulatory systems

I find the second answer unsatisfactory. Any chronic condition that damages arteries leads to plaque and this, in my opinion, accounts for all the other associations. The arterial wall damage can be due to excess blood sugar, oxidation, or pathogens (SARS-CoV-2?). The damage causes an inflammatory response and extra serum cholesterol is needed to repair the damage (forms the plaque). The chronic plaque formation reduces the arterial cross-section and reduces elasticity which both increase blood pressure.

The underlying cause is arterial wall damage. This can be measured non-intrusively using the Ankle-Brachial Pressure Index:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ankle–brachial_pressure_index

Re: New model could explain old cholesterol mystery

#24
post #15
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm always confused when I read/hear people say things like this. Do people think there is a skyscraper downtown with a giant sign on it that says Expert HQ on it or something where they release their findings from?

I understand that science is multi-facted discipline and there are a lot of people who have dedicated their lives to their craft and discovering truth because of their desire to solve human suffering and figure out how the world works. I also think there are a bunch of "scientists" that like the veneer that comes with the title like to spend their time talking on TV, going to parties, chairing committees and stealing…

Doctors learn the results of science, but generally aren’t scientists. People doing science outreach are generally in that same category where their knowledgeable, but speak outside their specialty. Simply because being able to do original research today means a very narrow focus.

Beyond that, the best available information isn’t always that clear. Low salt diets for example where prompted based on very limited information that suggested they where slightly more likely to be useful than pointless. Unfortunately, we rarely have unambiguous data which gives clear guidance. Vitamin C for example is mandatory, but you can have zero vitamin C for 2 weeks without issue or quickly excrete excess. For more subtle interactions it’s just difficult to figure out what’s going on.

Re: New model could explain old cholesterol mystery

#25
So the new model seems to be suggesting that high LDLs are not a cause for heart disease, but rather a symptom. Have other studies tying high LDLs to heart disease taken this into account, or did their main findings just show a correlation with high LDLs and heart disease?

Re: New model could explain old cholesterol mystery

#26
I think it was a mistake to focus public health discussions around the finer details of work in progress research.

The ambiguities and unknowns have opened the door for fitness gurus and health product grifters to turn this into a sort of holy war. It’s sad to see how many people have been convinced they are “healthy” because they follow a couple out of context fragments of the overall health picture.

I know too many people who think they are doing everything right because they avoid gluten, or don’t eat dairy products, or minimize saturated fat. Yet they go on to consume excessive amounts of sugar, or drink copious amounts of alcohol, or eat 4000+ calories per day of their chosen healthy foods.

Re: New model could explain old cholesterol mystery

#27

The idea that animal products are unhealthy seems to be misguided. It seems more likely that the supposedly "heart healthy" seed oils are causing heart disease. The Carnivore Code has some very good insights (at least in my opinion) [1] And this talk on how seed oils are destroying our health is also pretty interesting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kGnfXXIKZM [1] https://www.amazon.com/Carnivore-Code-Unlocking-Re…

It's what the science says so far. It's amazing that since there are gaps in our knowledge people readily jump over to woo woo fad diets.

Re: New model could explain old cholesterol mystery

#28
post #5

I am close with someone who has chronic high cholesterol, in addition to a 6-pack abs. She exercises 5x/week and eats .5kg of animal products/week at most, usually white meat. She just visited her heart Dr and was told that her cholesterol is too high and that she needs to cut out animal products entirely as a next step. I am thinking...is this really the modern answer to someone's high cholesterol if they consistent…

My grandmother has been diagnosed with high cholesterol since I was a toddler. She's 104 years old and survived COVID this summer.

Similar - my grandfather is my only grand parent with high cholesterol, he's now 93 and has out lived all my other grand parents and his sister. It's clear to me that there's a lot here that we still don't understand.

Re: New model could explain old cholesterol mystery

#29
post #7
post #3

This is why I have three things I never trust the experts in. - How to be healthy - How to educate - How to raise kids It seems like every decade we find out everything we did last decade was bad and wrong but now we've finally for sure got it figured out, and this time we know we are right because we have fancier gadgets and more citations in our name. From Frued to the Food Pyramid it seems that the experts always…

So who do you trust on these matters?

Whoever sells the most books.

Re: New model could explain old cholesterol mystery

#30

The idea that animal products are unhealthy seems to be misguided. It seems more likely that the supposedly "heart healthy" seed oils are causing heart disease. The Carnivore Code has some very good insights (at least in my opinion) [1] And this talk on how seed oils are destroying our health is also pretty interesting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kGnfXXIKZM [1] https://www.amazon.com/Carnivore-Code-Unlocking-Re…

It's what the science says so far. It's amazing that since there are gaps in our knowledge people readily jump over to woo woo fad diets.

The science in this area is actually pretty low quality from a strict evidence-based medicine standpoint. It mostly consists of poorly controlled observational studies, which are only one step above the woo woo fad diets. We still don't have a solid theoretical framework for how all the pieces fit together.
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