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New model could explain old cholesterol mystery

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Re: New model could explain old cholesterol mystery

#101

Post by 123409871234 »

superqd wrote: post #64

So much nutrition research is all correlation and no causation. Statements like this, which over-infer, kill me: "There is little doubt that people with high cholesterol have an increased risk of disease." It's just as valid to say that people with heart disease are more likely to have high cholesterol. When all you have is correlation, there is a heart disease group, and a high cholesterol group, and all you shown w…

We know that high cholesterol is a cause of heart disease rather than a mere correlation because people with genetic Hypercholesterolemia have a rate of heart disease 10-20x that of the general population, independent of other risk factors: https://www.acc.org/latest-in-cardiology/articles/2020/06/01...

Re: New model could explain old cholesterol mystery

#102

Post by hammock »

ncmncm wrote: post #80
Geee wrote: post #57

This guy has been arguing for years that it is sugar (fructose actually) that increases the "bad" LDL in your blood stream https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM

Robert Lustig is right that fructose (half of common sugar) is responsible for a variety of ills: exactly the ones Americans die of, by the millions. There is a lot of Lustig material on youtube, all of it excellent, all thoroughly grounded in rigorous experimental science. We need more Robert Lustigs. The normal metabolic route is that excess fructose, beyond what the liver can afford to process immediately or store…

Can you share a good article about the misconceptions of cholesterol and the dangers of statins? I've been looking for a decent source. I have a family member on a statin now.

Re: New model could explain old cholesterol mystery

#103

Post by andybak »

High cholesterol and hypertension here. Anyone want to give me a tl'dr?

The obvious and constant advice to date is: drink less alcohol, exercise more and eat less saturated fat.

Tackling all three at once is quite a challenge so it would be lovely if someone threw me a bone here. ;-)

Re: New model could explain old cholesterol mystery

#104

Post by andybak »

mrkeen wrote: post #85

A: saturated fats B: LDL cholesterol C: heart disease studies show saturated fats increase LDL cholesterol A => B People who get heart disease are more likely to have high LDL cholesterol C => B > Researchers have thus drawn a logical conclusion: a lot of saturated fat in the diet produces more cholesterol, which in turn increases the risk of heart disease. A => B /\ B => C > But this has been surprisingly difficult…

If I'm reading you correctly - this is the classic false syllogism?

Re: New model could explain old cholesterol mystery

#105

Post by nradov »

rafaelero wrote: post #90
nradov wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your hypothesis is incorrect, or at least not justified by the data. The whole field of human nutrition actually is in a very bad place. Most of what we think we know comes from low quality observational studies which don't rate well on the evidence based medicine scale. By all means let's continue research. But people generally shouldn't rely upon most of it when making dietary choices. A better approach is to condu…

But you see, I don't agree that these conclusions are based on low quality data. These conclusions are not merely based on observational studies, as you pointed. This question is being asked for more than 70 years and a lot of different types of designs have been tried: putting people on strictly monitored diets and seeing what happens to their biomarkers, finding people with weird mutations that lower their LDL chol…

Go back and read those studies again. No clear causal link has been found between those biomarkers and all-cause mortality.

Re: New model could explain old cholesterol mystery

#106

Post by basicplus2 »

Cholesterol is is not the problem. HDL and LDL differences not withstanding.

Cholesterol is used by the body to patch damaged arterial walls which can cause clogging if the there is excessive damage to the arteries.

The problem is high sugar levels in the blood by eating high sugar content foods and high glycemic index foods like highly processed carbohydrates which turn to sugar quickly raising blood suggar levels.

High sugar levels cause damage to the arterial walls and bodies response is to patch the damage.

https://www.adwdiabetes.com/articles/repeated-sugar-spikes-d...

Other issues interfere with the ability of lipids entering the wall properly in the repair process and cause the atherosclerosis exaserbated by ldl presence also caused by high sugar levels amongst others

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.f gov/1222702/

Unfortunately all these issues get conflated together to produce misunderstanding and alot of misunderstanding

Re: New model could explain old cholesterol mystery

#107

Post by coldtea »

tharkun__ wrote: post #95
elhudy wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

can't please everybody :)

I think specifying meat vs other sources is more of an inaccuracy thing and can be corrected easily without involving interpretations. "eats healthy" on the other hand is an exercise in assigning values to one way of eating over another. If you talk to a keto guy and you tell him you "eat healthy too" he might assume you're doing keto too. Talk to a vegan they probably think you're vegan as well etc. :)

Well, we know they don't eat like a pig, stocking their mouth with burgers and fries and deep fried mars bars. That's something...

Re: New model could explain old cholesterol mystery

#108

Post by moltar »

elhudy wrote: post #5

I am close with someone who has chronic high cholesterol, in addition to a 6-pack abs. She exercises 5x/week and eats .5kg of animal products/week at most, usually white meat. She just visited her heart Dr and was told that her cholesterol is too high and that she needs to cut out animal products entirely as a next step. I am thinking...is this really the modern answer to someone's high cholesterol if they consistent…

Take a look at this: https://youtu.be/jZu52duIqno

Re: New model could explain old cholesterol mystery

#109

Post by moltar »

tharkun__ wrote: post #92
elhudy wrote: post #5

I am close with someone who has chronic high cholesterol, in addition to a 6-pack abs. She exercises 5x/week and eats .5kg of animal products/week at most, usually white meat. She just visited her heart Dr and was told that her cholesterol is too high and that she needs to cut out animal products entirely as a next step. I am thinking...is this really the modern answer to someone's high cholesterol if they consistent…

I have high cholesterol. Used to eat normally. Was on statins. Highest dose doctor would prescribe. Got muscle problems. Doctor took me off statin coz it might be the heart muscle at some point. Unrelated to this I tried Keto a bit later. I did actual real keto with less than 20g of carbs. Probably higher on the protein side than normal but loooots of fat definitely and eggs and bacon and all the other cholesterol st…

This would explain it: https://youtu.be/jZu52duIqno

Re: New model could explain old cholesterol mystery

#110

Post by ChrisIsTaken »

tharkun__ wrote: post #92
elhudy wrote: post #5

I am close with someone who has chronic high cholesterol, in addition to a 6-pack abs. She exercises 5x/week and eats .5kg of animal products/week at most, usually white meat. She just visited her heart Dr and was told that her cholesterol is too high and that she needs to cut out animal products entirely as a next step. I am thinking...is this really the modern answer to someone's high cholesterol if they consistent…

I have high cholesterol. Used to eat normally. Was on statins. Highest dose doctor would prescribe. Got muscle problems. Doctor took me off statin coz it might be the heart muscle at some point. Unrelated to this I tried Keto a bit later. I did actual real keto with less than 20g of carbs. Probably higher on the protein side than normal but loooots of fat definitely and eggs and bacon and all the other cholesterol st…

My LDL dropped by three quarters once I switched to a keto(ish) diet a decade ago and stayed down. My HDL remained stable, almost like the body manufactures it for cell walls or something...
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