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“I saw that you spun up an Ubuntu image in Azure”

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Re: “I saw that you spun up an Ubuntu image in Azure”

#161

Post by ufmace »

schnevets wrote: post #20

Early in my career, I worked for a tiny company that exclusively built plug-ins for a specific SAAS platform. I noticed there was a public-facing page where one could search for any customer of this SAAS platform, so I built a scraper that would auto-search names, main URLs, and ticker symbols for every company on the S&P 500 into this search. I demoed it with 5 companies to a member of the sales team, and he politel…

That sounds like a quality sales team. Things like the OP tend to happen when you take inexperienced and desperate sales people and make them work on straight commission with no mentorship. Exactly as the person you spoke to feared, this has tarnished the reputation of the entire Canoical organization, which is exactly why you don't do that.

Re: “I saw that you spun up an Ubuntu image in Azure”

#162

Post by kube-system »

wizzwizz4 wrote: post #120
kube-system wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The code is gratis. Although, partnership deals tend to go beyond simply sharing code, and into the realm of dedicating time and resources to working with each other.

The code is more than just gratis; it's libre . This is Ubuntu, based on Debian GNU/Linux. (Yeah, okay, some of the code is merely gratis, but most of it is libre.) I don't expect an OS based on an OS based on an OS based on a half-finished OS based on free software principles to have shady data-dealing attached, yet hidden from the people whose data is being dealt.

My point is that it's not about the code at all.

Re: “I saw that you spun up an Ubuntu image in Azure”

#163

Post by plorg »

daveFNbuck wrote: post #151
plorg wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the car of Sirius it's pretty amazing the lengths they'll go. They send out a Customer Agreement with a welcome packet when they activate a trial subscription for a particular unit (usually when you buy a car, new or used, but I've received it on my car that I bought 4 years previously). That agreement, it claims, has the power of contract, and will be binding on the customer as soon as the service is activated or…

If the trial contract isn't enforceable, why bother canceling?

I want them to stop sending me nuisance mail whether or not the contract is enforceable.

Re: “I saw that you spun up an Ubuntu image in Azure”

#164

Post by rntksi »

curtis3389 wrote: post #64
raesene9 wrote: post #8

The register article on this https://www.theregister.com/2021/02/11/microsoft_azure_ubunt... has responses from Canonical and MS, which shed a bit more light on the situation. The Canonical quote is the most illuminating :- "As per the Azure T&Cs, Microsoft shares with Canonical, the publisher of Ubuntu, the contact details of developers launching Ubuntu instances on Azure. These contact details are held in Canonical…

We all know that you can't trust Microsoft, but a lot of people blindly trust Canonical just because they create a Linux distro. I haven't trusted Canonical since I noticed their pattern of creating competing alternatives to new Linux standards instead of helping them (Mir & Wayland, Snap & Flatpack, Unity & Gnome 3). It'd be one thing if they were bringing better ideas and long-term support to their alternatives, bu…

For servers, I would trust Debian over Ubuntu/Canonical any day. The way their releases work, the default set of running services, etc.

In general, I personally prefer the way Debian works (Debian the Project - not the Distro). It has a board of elected developers governing the project. I would prefer that over somewhat opaque functioning inside a company (Canonical).

To cite as an example, here's how they decided on the question of init systems [1].

[1]: https://www.debian.org/vote/2019/vote_002

Re: “I saw that you spun up an Ubuntu image in Azure”

#165

Post by daveFNbuck »

whimsicalism wrote: post #84
fireball_blaze wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But no one is calling this guy a villain. For example, his name is not mentioned once in all these HN comments. It's not his fault. And indeed the Azure T&C's are definitely referenced a in the Twitter discussion with the OP. Such as: https://twitter.com/dezren39/status/1359726235929223168

"On February 10th, a new Canonical Sales Representative contacted one of these developers via LinkedIn, with a poor choice of word. In light of this incident, Canonical will be reviewing its sales training and policies."" My reading of this statement is that they are scapegoating the guy.

I think an attempt to scapegoat would look more like "in violation of our established policies and rigorous training, a Canonical Sales Representative contacted one of these developers via LinkedIn."

The actual quote acknowledges that the company's training and policies are at fault. I'd also expect a scapegoat to be publicly fired or disciplined, did they say that elsewhere?

Re: “I saw that you spun up an Ubuntu image in Azure”

#167

Post by jacurtis »

badjeans wrote: post #56
IgorPartola wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow. I just lost a whole lot of respect for Canonical. “If you read the document we expect nobody to read, you’d know that you sold your soul to us. We didn’t mean for you to find that out but one of our salespeople got overeager and tried to sell you your soul back. He will be reprimanded. Can we all forget about this real quick?”

Why Canonical? Isn't this a Microsoft feature?

Yes the fact that Microsoft shares this information is concerning. But Microsoft only provides the information to Canonical (according to the ToS) for technical assistance and product support, but not for Marketing purposes.

Canonical is the one who violates trust here. Because they are using this information for marketing purposes, which they are not allowed to do under the information sharing agreement that they have with Microsoft.

So yes, we could argue whether Microsoft should be providing the installation information in the first place. It should at the very least be opt-out (on by default with the ability to not share), and preferably it should actually be opt-in (off by default, check a box to allow). So there is a violation of trust going on here, but this isn't any different than every other major tech company is guilty of right now (not that it makes it right).

But Canonical is the one that took the information and used it in a way that was never agreed to by either the person sharing the information (Microsoft) or by the user via the ToS (the ToS says that it is strictly for tech support, not for marketing). Canonical is the one that really overreached here.

Re: “I saw that you spun up an Ubuntu image in Azure”

#168

Post by daveFNbuck »

plorg wrote: post #163
daveFNbuck wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the trial contract isn't enforceable, why bother canceling?

I want them to stop sending me nuisance mail whether or not the contract is enforceable.

Did canceling stop it? They still have your contact information and they still know you have a satellite radio in your car.

Re: “I saw that you spun up an Ubuntu image in Azure”

#169

Post by dylan604 »

IgorPartola wrote: post #45
csours wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You buy a dishwasher from Best Buy. They send your name and address to Maytag. For warranty purposes of course > You buy soap from Walmart. They send your name and address to Johnson & Johnson. In case they need to recall the soap > You buy a sandwich at your local deli. They send your name and address to Boar’s Head. Cool? So you can get some cool Boar's Head swag! Just kidding of course. We need much better data…

> So you can get some cool Boar's Head swag! I can’t even imagine what that might be. But technical support for my sandwich making needs would be fun. Kind of how Butterball (I think it’s them) has a help line on Thanksgiving for cooking turkeys. They made the news a few years ago by hiring men to work the phones because they learned that men cook more frequently now but feel uncomfortable asking women for advice. I…

>I can’t even imagine what that might be.

A mounted boar's head to mount on the wall that makes grunting sounds when it's sammich time. But being HN, it'll also have cameras for eyes (3d) and microphones in the ears so that it knows when it is time to re-order more product. Maybe it'll link with Alexa/Siri/GHome with an articulated mouth so that it makes it look like it is Alexa. If you place it where it can see the contents of your fridge and/or pantry, it will be able to automatically order food for you.

The lack of imagination these days... /s

Re: “I saw that you spun up an Ubuntu image in Azure”

#170

Post by raverbashing »

jacurtis wrote: post #142
rkangel wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, to me the MS statement is the most illuminating and I'm guessing that Canonical is getting some grumpy calls from Microsoft. This is the last part of the Microsoft statement: "Our terms with our publishers allow them to provide customers with implementation and technical support for their products but restricts them from using contact details for marketing purposes" Canonical then tells us that this person…

> "On February 10th, a new Canonical Sales Representative contacted one of these developers via LinkedIn, with a poor choice of word. In light of this incident, Canonical will be reviewing its sales training and policies." The part I find the most enlightening (ie: disturbing) is that Canonical's only regret is that the sales rep used "a poor choice of word" and they will train their salespeople better. I assume the…

Yeah, the only acceptable choice of words in this case would be: none.
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