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Facebook sued for ‘losing control’ of users’ data

bbc.com

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Re: Facebook sued for ‘losing control’ of users’ data

#131

Post by lm28469 »

Nextgrid wrote: post #85
lm28469 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> again nobody's data was shared without consent - people explicitly opted to share their data - which includes basic info about their friends, which I'd argue is their data too - with Cambridge Analytica You frame this as if it was a logical train of thought but it isn't to me (and apparently I'm not the only one). You're not to decide what the UK courts determine to be acceptable or not and imho you're reasoning is…

If we agree with your reasoning it would mean that simply getting a new phone would involve me calling/texting everyone in my contacts list to ask for their consent for me to enter their numbers on my new phone since I'm potentially sharing their details with a third-party. > Facebook has a systemic issue with the way they harvest, handle, share and monetise their users data, this case is just a drop in the ocean of…

> If we agree with your reasoning it would mean that simply getting a new phone would involve me calling/texting everyone in my contacts list to ask for their consent for me to enter their numbers on my new phone since I'm potentially sharing their details with a third-party.

But again, you're missing the forest for the tree. You discuss the symptoms while I discuss the root cause. A phone shouldn't let third party randomly siphon arbitrary data about you and your friends without making public the full scope of their project. A consent isn't consent if you're being tricked into giving it for nefarious use

Re: Facebook sued for ‘losing control’ of users’ data

#132

Post by wizzwizz4 »

dtech wrote: post #68
stickfigure wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why does Facebook allow people to share the data of others who didn't agree to this? I have names, email addresses, phone numbers, birthdates, email contents, and more for most of my friends. There's no centralized arbiter of this information; I have the ability to share this data in any way I choose. And I do! I switch email providers, install apps on my phone, use calendaring systems, tell our friends where to me…

> I don't need your consent for any of it, because even though the information may be about you, we understand that it's "my" data. You do need content though, if I provide my email in a social setting I implicitly give consent to birthday parties etc. I didn't consent to you selling my email as part of a bundle. If people found out you were providing data to random people at least a stern talking to would happen. Un…

This is also my understanding of the law.

GDPR also prohibits me from making a list of my friends' addresses and then trading that list to the Girl Guides in exchange for biscuits.

Re: Facebook sued for ‘losing control’ of users’ data

#133

Post by [deleted] »

dtech wrote: post #68
stickfigure wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why does Facebook allow people to share the data of others who didn't agree to this? I have names, email addresses, phone numbers, birthdates, email contents, and more for most of my friends. There's no centralized arbiter of this information; I have the ability to share this data in any way I choose. And I do! I switch email providers, install apps on my phone, use calendaring systems, tell our friends where to me…

> I don't need your consent for any of it, because even though the information may be about you, we understand that it's "my" data. You do need content though, if I provide my email in a social setting I implicitly give consent to birthday parties etc. I didn't consent to you selling my email as part of a bundle. If people found out you were providing data to random people at least a stern talking to would happen. Un…

[deleted]

Re: Facebook sued for ‘losing control’ of users’ data

#134

Post by lovecg »

ralston3 wrote: post #79
Nextgrid wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Cambridge Analytica scandal has nothing to do with Facebook's business model and Facebook did not gain anything from this. To the best of my knowledge CA abused a free feature (API access) designed for legitimate usage to collect user data for nefarious purposes. Facebook was acting as a neutral carrier here and respected the user's intention of sharing their data with CA.

> The Cambridge Analytica scandal has nothing to do with Facebook's business model and Facebook did not gain anything from this. Hilarious. The Cambridge Analytica scandal is in regards to a nefarious 3rd party using Facebook's pipes in a way that violated Facebook's policy. There are emails to show that Facebook knew about this, and did not act to remove CA's access to said pipes (no, [1] there are literally emails…

Thanks for the links. After having read the entire thread (it’s not long), a few things stand out: 1) This was not treated as a high pri issue at all until the story broke out in the media (compare the frequency of messages before and after) 2) There was a mad scramble to understand where exactly CA got their data from. It was far from obvious and there was no access to close as CA didn’t even have any app or a relationship with FB.

Re: Facebook sued for ‘losing control’ of users’ data

#135

Post by AmericanChopper »

btown wrote: post #128
Ajedi32 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the link: > The claim that this is a data breach is completely false. Aleksandr Kogan requested and gained access to information from users who chose to sign up to his app, and everyone involved gave their consent. People knowingly provided their information, no systems were infiltrated, and no passwords or sensitive pieces of information were stolen or hacked. Users knowingly _agreed_ to share their data with D…

And Facebook is being sued for... not having technical mitigations to guard against contractual breaches?

The reason we have a system of civil laws is so that everybody doesn’t have to all individually set up their own system to guard against contractual breaches.

Re: Facebook sued for ‘losing control’ of users’ data

#136

Post by willxinc »

flixic wrote: post #35

I can imagine a lawsuit from the opposite side of the argument: it is these APIs that allow to challenge incumbent social networks, and if the result of the lawsuit rules these APIs out, growing a competitor to Facebook or Twitter might be a lot harder. Recently I've felt the benefit of this, when sharing my Twitter following with Clubhouse. Clubhouse can grow and challenge other networks because these APIs exist. (W…

I agree, but part of it I think is more finely grained permission requests. ie. Distinguishing viewing X's data, vs viewing data as X. That still doesn't solve the issue where the typical person doesn't actually read permission requests, but should still provide better security.

Re: Facebook sued for ‘losing control’ of users’ data

#137

Post by Alex3917 »

shuntress wrote: post #123
Alex3917 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before the Cambridge Analytica thing, everyone was saying that Facebook was evil because they were a walled garden. So they created an API, and now everyone is saying they're evil because they created an API. Go figure. There's even a Gaping Void cartoon memorializing the sentiment: http://vhirsch.com/blog/2011/10/06/walled-gardens/

The API is criticized because (in addition to enabling malicious actions) it does nothing to increase the wall's permeability to users.

> The API is criticized because (in addition to enabling malicious actions) it does nothing to increase the wall's permeability to users.

Now, sure. Less so in 2010 or whenever.

Re: Facebook sued for ‘losing control’ of users’ data

#138

Post by DyslexicAtheist »

Nextgrid wrote: post #3

I'm no Facebook fan but the reasons behind the lawsuit are bad and could set a bad precedent. Cambridge Analytica used the Facebook API to ask users to share data about them & their friends. Stupid users agreed to that. The argument here isn't that Facebook is playing fast and loose with tracking & user data (which would be a legitimate argument), it's that Facebook is allowing people to grant access to their data to…

to me the transcending point in all discussions about FB (or any company that peddles Ad-tech) is that they should not exist as a business in the first place. Targeted advertising as well as UE dark-patterns that lead to addiction and radicalization of vulnerable groups should be illegal. Problem solved.

Re: Facebook sued for ‘losing control’ of users’ data

#139

Post by orangeoxidation »

ysavir wrote: post #96
dfxm12 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cambridge Analytica used the Facebook API to ask users to share data about them & their friends. Stupid users agreed to that. According to Facebook, this is not what happened and CA's collection of this data represented a breach in their platform policies [0]: In 2015, we learned that a psychology professor at the University of Cambridge named Dr. Aleksandr Kogan lied to us and violated our Platform Policies by passi…

And does anything about this make Facebook liable for the way CA used the data willingly given to them by their users? Facebook is either: 1. a neutral party, acting on the wishes of its users, who asked to grant CA access to their data. The victims are users and the aggressor is CA for misusing data. Or: 2. a victim party, after CA went against their policies. CA is the aggressor in this scenario, and the users are…

> Cambridge Analytica's app on Facebook had harvested the data of people who interacted with it - and that of friends who had not given consent.

This is the problem (quote from op article). Facebook collected data on people and than shared this data to third parties without their consent. That friends gave consent to this has no relevance. They don't have the right to do so and they didn't do it themselves. Facebook did - on the request of CA (or rather that 'researcher'), with the approval of friends.

Re: Facebook sued for ‘losing control’ of users’ data

#140

Post by ArnoVW »

btown wrote: post #128
Ajedi32 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the link: > The claim that this is a data breach is completely false. Aleksandr Kogan requested and gained access to information from users who chose to sign up to his app, and everyone involved gave their consent. People knowingly provided their information, no systems were infiltrated, and no passwords or sensitive pieces of information were stolen or hacked. Users knowingly _agreed_ to share their data with D…

And Facebook is being sued for... not having technical mitigations to guard against contractual breaches?

the way the legal system works: you are responsible for your contracts. If your supplier messes up, your customers sue you, you sue your supplier.
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