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Facebook sued for ‘losing control’ of users’ data

bbc.com

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Re: Facebook sued for ‘losing control’ of users’ data

#51

Post by Nextgrid »

dkarp wrote: post #23
Nextgrid wrote: post #3

I'm no Facebook fan but the reasons behind the lawsuit are bad and could set a bad precedent. Cambridge Analytica used the Facebook API to ask users to share data about them & their friends. Stupid users agreed to that. The argument here isn't that Facebook is playing fast and loose with tracking & user data (which would be a legitimate argument), it's that Facebook is allowing people to grant access to their data to…

> Cambridge Analytica used the Facebook API to ask users to share data about them & their friends This may be true technically, but if it was not made clear to the users what they were sharing and what their data would be used for then the users cannot legitimately agree. Facebook, as platform owners, can force organisation to be clear about what will be disclosed and what for. This is one of the goals of European GD…

> if it was not made clear to the users what they were sharing

The Facebook OAuth consent prompt is pretty clear.

> what their data would be used for

This is an issue with Cambridge Analytica, not Facebook. Similarly, if a seller on eBay asks you to wire them money and then scams you, why should the bank be liable?

Furthermore, Cambridge Analytica's actions apparently broke the Facebook API terms of use. There's nothing Facebook could've done here unless they can predict the future and retroactively deny access to companies that they know will break the rules in the future.

Re: Facebook sued for ‘losing control’ of users’ data

#52

Post by Nasrudith »

nvoid wrote: post #24
Nextgrid wrote: post #3

I'm no Facebook fan but the reasons behind the lawsuit are bad and could set a bad precedent. Cambridge Analytica used the Facebook API to ask users to share data about them & their friends. Stupid users agreed to that. The argument here isn't that Facebook is playing fast and loose with tracking & user data (which would be a legitimate argument), it's that Facebook is allowing people to grant access to their data to…

> I'm no Facebook fan I like how we have to preface our opinions with this now. I think if you're on HN it's a given at this point. I would agree with you that there are a lot of stupid people on the site and they will still find away to do something stupid. But I despise harsh regulation and I don't think that's necessarily the solution. However, when the stakes are so high (elections) I think there is something to…

The stakes change nothing about who is actually responsible. If a terrorist steals your car and uses it for an attack does that mean it is right to hold you accountable because the matter is so serious?

Facebook is not your parent. That logic, that others need to be "held accountable" and that voters are children who cannot be trusted to make up their own minds is far more dangerous to democracy than the Cambridge Analytica ratfucking.

Re: Facebook sued for ‘losing control’ of users’ data

#53

Post by freeone3000 »

ginko wrote: post #48
stickfigure wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why does Facebook allow people to share the data of others who didn't agree to this? I have names, email addresses, phone numbers, birthdates, email contents, and more for most of my friends. There's no centralized arbiter of this information; I have the ability to share this data in any way I choose. And I do! I switch email providers, install apps on my phone, use calendaring systems, tell our friends where to me…

> I have the ability to share this data in any way I choose. Freely sharing your friends' data without their permission may be a GDPR violation. > because even though the information may be about you, we understand that it's "my" data. That's just not true. Why would you think that?!

> Freely sharing your friends' data without their permission may be a GDPR violation.

GDPR is for businesses. Me giving out your phone number as an individual is just being a jerk.

Re: Facebook sued for ‘losing control’ of users’ data

#54

Post by dfxm12 »

Nextgrid wrote: post #3

I'm no Facebook fan but the reasons behind the lawsuit are bad and could set a bad precedent. Cambridge Analytica used the Facebook API to ask users to share data about them & their friends. Stupid users agreed to that. The argument here isn't that Facebook is playing fast and loose with tracking & user data (which would be a legitimate argument), it's that Facebook is allowing people to grant access to their data to…

Cambridge Analytica used the Facebook API to ask users to share data about them & their friends. Stupid users agreed to that.

According to Facebook, this is not what happened and CA's collection of this data represented a breach in their platform policies [0]:

In 2015, we learned that a psychology professor at the University of Cambridge named Dr. Aleksandr Kogan lied to us and violated our Platform Policies by passing data from an app that was using Facebook Login to SCL/Cambridge Analytica ... He also passed that data to Christopher Wylie of Eunoia Technologies, Inc.

[Kogan] did not subsequently abide by our rules. By passing information on to a third party, including SCL/Cambridge Analytica and Christopher Wylie of Eunoia Technologies, he violated our platform policies.

0 - https://about.fb.com/news/2018/03/suspending-cambridge-analy...

Re: Facebook sued for ‘losing control’ of users’ data

#55

Post by voxic11 »

ginko wrote: post #48
stickfigure wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why does Facebook allow people to share the data of others who didn't agree to this? I have names, email addresses, phone numbers, birthdates, email contents, and more for most of my friends. There's no centralized arbiter of this information; I have the ability to share this data in any way I choose. And I do! I switch email providers, install apps on my phone, use calendaring systems, tell our friends where to me…

> I have the ability to share this data in any way I choose. Freely sharing your friends' data without their permission may be a GDPR violation. > because even though the information may be about you, we understand that it's "my" data. That's just not true. Why would you think that?!

> Freely sharing your friends' data without their permission may be a GDPR violation.

Absurd, how would an email provider or social network even work if you couldn't enter your friends contact information.

Re: Facebook sued for ‘losing control’ of users’ data

#56

Post by Nextgrid »

lm28469 wrote: post #20
Nextgrid wrote: post #3

I'm no Facebook fan but the reasons behind the lawsuit are bad and could set a bad precedent. Cambridge Analytica used the Facebook API to ask users to share data about them & their friends. Stupid users agreed to that. The argument here isn't that Facebook is playing fast and loose with tracking & user data (which would be a legitimate argument), it's that Facebook is allowing people to grant access to their data to…

> Stupid users agreed to that. This is on the level of "poor people should just stop being poor" or "she was raped because she didn't dress decently enough" On on side you have a mega corp doing all it can to harvest as much data as possible, backed by behavioural analysis, AB testing, and all kind of studies on how to trick people's brain into feeding the algorithm with more data points. On the other hand you have "…

> On on side you have a mega corp doing all it can to harvest as much data as possible, backed by behavioural analysis, AB testing, and all kind of studies on how to trick people's brain into feeding the algorithm with more data points. On the other hand you have "stupid users"

This lawsuit is explicitly not about the big tech giant's (Facebook) data processing (which I agree is a problem).

The lawsuit is about how Facebook should've somehow been able to predict the future malicious actions of a company and prevent users from sharing their data with them against their own will (again nobody's data was shared without consent - people explicitly opted to share their data - which includes basic info about their friends, which I'd argue is their data too - with Cambridge Analytica).

If there's a "megacorp shark" here, it's Cambridge Analytica and not Facebook.

Re: Facebook sued for ‘losing control’ of users’ data

#57

Post by Nextgrid »

neya wrote: post #37
Nextgrid wrote: post #3

I'm no Facebook fan but the reasons behind the lawsuit are bad and could set a bad precedent. Cambridge Analytica used the Facebook API to ask users to share data about them & their friends. Stupid users agreed to that. The argument here isn't that Facebook is playing fast and loose with tracking & user data (which would be a legitimate argument), it's that Facebook is allowing people to grant access to their data to…

Here's a counter argument - API access is just one aspect of Facebook selling user data, as far as I know, Facebook will license its data via customized methods (eg. a custom API) if you pay a fee for its access. There are even vendors who provide data from Facebook that isn't available via what you see as public on their documentation. Governments around the world use this to get user data access from Facebook. To m…

Facebook does not "sell" data and has absolutely nothing to gain by selling it or sharing it with Cambridge Analytica.

CA abused a legitimate feature that allowed users to delegate access to their accounts. My comment is about how this lawsuit will set a bad precedent and restrict API access even further (hindering legitimate usage) without doing much to prevent abuse (because people can just share their credentials instead).

Re: Facebook sued for ‘losing control’ of users’ data

#58

Post by coding123 »

squeaky-clean wrote: post #44
lupire wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no 1000 page EULA to read, and FB wasn't the predator. CA asked for data and user said yes, same as if you accept a friend request with someone who gossips about you behind your back.

> CA asked for data and user said yes I think a lot of people are forgetting that you were also able to get tons of data on a user's friends, just from that user accepting. No consent on the friends part. If you and I were FB friends and I accepted one of those requests, CA now also knows your profile info and likes.

What you said. I was starting to read the like 100 comments about how people clicked yes and so be it, but the entire time I was thinking, wait, no, that's not what happened. It's what you just said. Amazing how a little time leads to revisionist history for these people defending facebook.

Re: Facebook sued for ‘losing control’ of users’ data

#59

Post by CivBase »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #32
lupire wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no 1000 page EULA to read, and FB wasn't the predator. CA asked for data and user said yes, same as if you accept a friend request with someone who gossips about you behind your back.

This is ludicrous. So somebody friends me on Facebook, someone who I know and trust. Then that person comes along some quiz, and then in teeny text at the bottom of what looks like a standard "blah blah blah" popup is the information, carefully worded as to not be too alarmist, that that person's friends' data (i.e. me) will also be sucked up. At that point, why just stop at friends? Why not go to any transitive rela…

If you told Facebook to give someone access to your personal information and they took it and handed it off to a third party, what is Facebook supposed to do about that? What can Facebook do about that? What could any website do about that?

I despise Facebook, but I really don't understand this whole Cambridge Analytica thing. There doesn't appear to be an endgame for those criticizing Facebook over the ordeal. Of all the despicable things Facebook has done, why is this the one that everyone clings to?

Re: Facebook sued for ‘losing control’ of users’ data

#60

Post by Nextgrid »

dschuetz wrote: post #47
Nextgrid wrote: post #3

I'm no Facebook fan but the reasons behind the lawsuit are bad and could set a bad precedent. Cambridge Analytica used the Facebook API to ask users to share data about them & their friends. Stupid users agreed to that. The argument here isn't that Facebook is playing fast and loose with tracking & user data (which would be a legitimate argument), it's that Facebook is allowing people to grant access to their data to…

As Mr. Zuckerberg stated personally, the main product of Facebook are ads. That means, everything around ads and user tracking is their core business. Not whatever users do, but whatever users see and click when an ad is up. Making privacy settings more restrictive or convenient goes directly against Facebook's business model, as does transparency about data brokerage and third parties. Saying that basically the user…

The Cambridge Analytica scandal has nothing to do with Facebook's business model and Facebook did not gain anything from this.

To the best of my knowledge CA abused a free feature (API access) designed for legitimate usage to collect user data for nefarious purposes. Facebook was acting as a neutral carrier here and respected the user's intention of sharing their data with CA.

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