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Facebook sued for ‘losing control’ of users’ data

bbc.com

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Re: Facebook sued for ‘losing control’ of users’ data

#121

Post by cronix »

efdee wrote: post #64
CivBase wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you told Facebook to give someone access to your personal information and they took it and handed it off to a third party, what is Facebook supposed to do about that? What can Facebook do about that? What could any website do about that? I despise Facebook, but I really don't understand this whole Cambridge Analytica thing. There doesn't appear to be an endgame for those criticizing Facebook over the ordeal. Of al…

It's not that my friend gave my info to someone else. My friend allowed the app to ask Facebook information about me. In the end, it's still Facebook who handed over my data. That my friend decided that was OK doesn't change much.

How is this any different than FB asking for access to your private contacts, to "help" you find them on FB? What if one of your friends isn't on FB, and doesn't want FB to have their info? Your friend didn't give you permission to give FB their private contact information, ie phone number. FB then goes and makes a shadow profile based on that info you supplied without permission, and any time you mention or tag said friend, whether in a text of photo.

Re: Facebook sued for ‘losing control’ of users’ data

#122

Post by manux »

Nextgrid wrote: post #88
manux wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, this whole "people are stupid" argument is incredibly dismissive. Not surprising of tech people's giant ego. Do people really want their doctor to invest several hours a week understanding the latest shenanigans and dangers of technology? Or should we just let our doctors be good doctors? Replace "doctor" by any other non-tech profession you respect, and you get my point. This isn't even about protecting "stupi…

I absolutely think regulation should be in place to protect against people/companies acting maliciously (thus preventing a Cambridge Analytica from existing in the first place), and I guess the reason people were so trusting is because they do expect such regulations to exist. However, I disagree with modifying/removing a legitimate feature (API access) just because it can be abused. Otherwise, why not go further and…

> Otherwise, why not go further and also ban knives (or go after supermarkets that sell them) to solve knife crime?

That sounds like a very slippery argument, but no, the way to solve knife crime is not to ban knifes, it's to understand and "fix" the reasons (systems) why people do knife crimes in the first place (e.g. poverty, poor mental health resources).

In this case, we need to understand how the systems (e.g. the API) allowed for this to happen, and perhaps yes, get rid of it (or perhaps some other solution, I don't know, but beyond CA it seems that even a "legitimate" use of the API can easily cause harm).

Re: Facebook sued for ‘losing control’ of users’ data

#123

Post by shuntress »

Alex3917 wrote: post #62
Nextgrid wrote: post #3

I'm no Facebook fan but the reasons behind the lawsuit are bad and could set a bad precedent. Cambridge Analytica used the Facebook API to ask users to share data about them & their friends. Stupid users agreed to that. The argument here isn't that Facebook is playing fast and loose with tracking & user data (which would be a legitimate argument), it's that Facebook is allowing people to grant access to their data to…

Before the Cambridge Analytica thing, everyone was saying that Facebook was evil because they were a walled garden. So they created an API, and now everyone is saying they're evil because they created an API. Go figure. There's even a Gaping Void cartoon memorializing the sentiment: http://vhirsch.com/blog/2011/10/06/walled-gardens/

The API is criticized because (in addition to enabling malicious actions) it does nothing to increase the wall's permeability to users.

Re: Facebook sued for ‘losing control’ of users’ data

#124

Post by politicalloss »

dragontamer wrote: post #113
ysavir wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And does anything about this make Facebook liable for the way CA used the data willingly given to them by their users? Facebook is either: 1. a neutral party, acting on the wishes of its users, who asked to grant CA access to their data. The victims are users and the aggressor is CA for misusing data. Or: 2. a victim party, after CA went against their policies. CA is the aggressor in this scenario, and the users are…

Or 3: The law works differently than you expect. Asking for a victim to find the "root cause" of a problem is too much to ask. If X wronged Y causes a wrong to happen to Z... the legal system is largely designed for "Z sues Y" then "Y sues X". Asking for Z to sue X directly is asking for too much. There's no way for Z to even know that X exists.

Did the losses and liabilities result from the actions of the plaintiff? Do we need multiple non-joined cases?

BTW, the SOLID project believes that data portability is a privacy advantage of their competing, open source federated system.

If you don't want people to know something, don't put it on the internet; regardless of TOS.

We shouldn't expect or rely upon information asymmetry holding over time.

Facebook certainly required users (who are not paying customers) to sign data sharing agreements.

Facebook did not commit the crimes of Cambridge Analytica (Steve Bannon, Trump's campaign guy; Ted Cruz). Facebook was fined $5b. Cambridge Analytica went bankrupt and Nix is barred from serving on the board of any UK company for 7 years.

Facebook's expenses related to Russian misinformation campaigns, Facebook's expenses related to the administration's denial of ongoing foreign information operations paid for by advertisers who don't want a spot next to sleaze.

Re: Facebook sued for ‘losing control’ of users’ data

#125

Post by marcosdumay »

prostoalex wrote: post #101
leothecool wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an exception for data that is required for the functioning of the service. You need your friends email address to use email, but do you really need their birthday or a sentiment analysis of their opinion of cheesecakes?

> but do you really need their birthday or a sentiment analysis of their opinion of cheesecakes If you go back to the Wild West of the Facebook apps, shortly after platform launch there was an app for everything - apps for fancy birthday cards with birthday reminders, as well as polling apps telling you which one of your friends is the biggest cheesecake lover. Every piece of data can be spun into being essential.

And you can collect each piece of information as soon as the user decides to use some app that needs it to function. Just not before.

Re: Facebook sued for ‘losing control’ of users’ data

#126

Post by lm28469 »

syshum wrote: post #73
lm28469 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you drive a car at 350kph on the highway, crash and die. Your death isn't due to "open roads", it's due to neglect/abuse

Roads are not really open, there is a ton a regulations around roads, what kind of cars can be sold for public road use and who can utilize the public road ways as a driver so your analogy fails on its face there. besides that fact, we also do not sue a Car manufacturer if a User of their car does go 350kph on the highway' crashes and dies.....

> there is a ton a regulations around roads, what kind of cars can be sold for public road use and who can utilize the public road ways as a driver so your analogy fails on its face there.

"open" api doesn't mean "do whatever you want", you're kind of making my point and the point of the article. There is nothing bad about Facebook going to court over that.

This isn't the result of open api, it's the result of badly designed and badly regulated open api.

Re: Facebook sued for ‘losing control’ of users’ data

#127

Post by pjc50 »

freeone3000 wrote: post #53
ginko wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have the ability to share this data in any way I choose. Freely sharing your friends' data without their permission may be a GDPR violation. > because even though the information may be about you, we understand that it's "my" data. That's just not true. Why would you think that?!

> Freely sharing your friends' data without their permission may be a GDPR violation. GDPR is for businesses. Me giving out your phone number as an individual is just being a jerk.

It doesn't actually say that; it applies to everyone, but there's an exemption for "exclusive to household or personal activities" purposes.

Re: Facebook sued for ‘losing control’ of users’ data

#128

Post by btown »

Ajedi32 wrote: post #102
dfxm12 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cambridge Analytica used the Facebook API to ask users to share data about them & their friends. Stupid users agreed to that. According to Facebook, this is not what happened and CA's collection of this data represented a breach in their platform policies [0]: In 2015, we learned that a psychology professor at the University of Cambridge named Dr. Aleksandr Kogan lied to us and violated our Platform Policies by passi…

From the link: > The claim that this is a data breach is completely false. Aleksandr Kogan requested and gained access to information from users who chose to sign up to his app, and everyone involved gave their consent. People knowingly provided their information, no systems were infiltrated, and no passwords or sensitive pieces of information were stolen or hacked. Users knowingly _agreed_ to share their data with D…

And Facebook is being sued for... not having technical mitigations to guard against contractual breaches?

Re: Facebook sued for ‘losing control’ of users’ data

#130

Post by pjc50 »

stickfigure wrote: post #43
ginko wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The argument here isn't that Facebook is playing fast and loose with tracking & user data (which would be a legitimate argument), it's that Facebook is allowing people to grant access to their data to third-parties and Facebook should somehow be faulted for that. Even so you wrote yourself that users shared data about their friends. Why does Facebook allow people to share the data of others who didn't agree to this?

> Why does Facebook allow people to share the data of others who didn't agree to this? I have names, email addresses, phone numbers, birthdates, email contents, and more for most of my friends. There's no centralized arbiter of this information; I have the ability to share this data in any way I choose. And I do! I switch email providers, install apps on my phone, use calendaring systems, tell our friends where to me…

> we understand that it's "my" data

Not really; it's their data, and you're allowed to use it.

> Inserting Facebook in this process doesn't really change the dynamic.

Yes it does, because while you (the individual) are allowed under GDPR to use the personal data of your friends for personal purposes, that doesn't automatically entitle Facebook to use it for their purposes. Only on your behalf for your purposes.

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