If Facebook can't maintain a business model without selling their well-trained and dopamine-addicted userbase like a commodity, then their business model does not deserve to be maintained.
Facebook sued for ‘losing control’ of users’ data
111–120 of 198 posts
Re: Facebook sued for ‘losing control’ of users’ data
#112I'm no Facebook fan but the reasons behind the lawsuit are bad and could set a bad precedent. Cambridge Analytica used the Facebook API to ask users to share data about them & their friends. Stupid users agreed to that. The argument here isn't that Facebook is playing fast and loose with tracking & user data (which would be a legitimate argument), it's that Facebook is allowing people to grant access to their data to…
Cambridge Analytica used the Facebook API to ask users to share data about them & their friends. Stupid users agreed to that. According to Facebook, this is not what happened and CA's collection of this data represented a breach in their platform policies [0]: In 2015, we learned that a psychology professor at the University of Cambridge named Dr. Aleksandr Kogan lied to us and violated our Platform Policies by passi…
So to solve that we need DRM user data, do platforms can control it beyond their properties? Cool.
Re: Facebook sued for ‘losing control’ of users’ data
#113Earlier quoted context omitted.
Cambridge Analytica used the Facebook API to ask users to share data about them & their friends. Stupid users agreed to that. According to Facebook, this is not what happened and CA's collection of this data represented a breach in their platform policies [0]: In 2015, we learned that a psychology professor at the University of Cambridge named Dr. Aleksandr Kogan lied to us and violated our Platform Policies by passi…
And does anything about this make Facebook liable for the way CA used the data willingly given to them by their users? Facebook is either: 1. a neutral party, acting on the wishes of its users, who asked to grant CA access to their data. The victims are users and the aggressor is CA for misusing data. Or: 2. a victim party, after CA went against their policies. CA is the aggressor in this scenario, and the users are…
Or 3: The law works differently than you expect.
Asking for a victim to find the "root cause" of a problem is too much to ask. If X wronged Y causes a wrong to happen to Z... the legal system is largely designed for "Z sues Y" then "Y sues X".
Asking for Z to sue X directly is asking for too much. There's no way for Z to even know that X exists.
Re: Facebook sued for ‘losing control’ of users’ data
#114If Facebook can't maintain a business model without selling their well-trained and dopamine-addicted userbase like a commodity, then their business model does not deserve to be maintained.
Facebook did not "sell" anything in this case. Facebook is a neutral carrier that got duped like everyone else. A malicious company used Facebook's API to ask for access to people's data and certain data about their friends, and people stupidly said yes. Should we now fault Facebook for complying with their user's wishes?
Re: Facebook sued for ‘losing control’ of users’ data
#115Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not that my friend gave my info to someone else. My friend allowed the app to ask Facebook information about me. In the end, it's still Facebook who handed over my data. That my friend decided that was OK doesn't change much.
As I understand, it was a browser extension which scraped data off the Facebook pages visited by users. There is no way Facebook could reasonably detect or combat that.
I think you're confusing it with another recent FB event where they sued browser extension makers for scraping FB data.
https://www.zdnet.com/article/facebook-sues-two-chrome-exten...
Re: Facebook sued for ‘losing control’ of users’ data
#116Earlier quoted context omitted.
True, but until these regulations exists, I'm not sure why we shouldn't hold Facebook accountable, at least morally -- and in the example you give, why we shouldn't hold browser extension providers accountable.
Why should Facebook be accountable here instead of the party that acted maliciously? Facebook acted as a neutral carrier. Users told them to share their data with CA, and they did. CA lied to both their users and even to Facebook itself (I think they breached FB API's terms and conditions), why should it be Facebook that's at fault? In your argument, if a car is used in a robbery, should the car dealership or manufac…
If a car has parts that are easily hacked/broken into, leading to injury to its user while the user "chose" to drive, shouldn't the manufacturer be at fault? This is what happened with CA and Facebook's API.
I'm not saying CA shouldn't be held accountable, I'm saying Facebook also has part of the blame.
Re: Facebook sued for ‘losing control’ of users’ data
#117Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is ludicrous. So somebody friends me on Facebook, someone who I know and trust. Then that person comes along some quiz, and then in teeny text at the bottom of what looks like a standard "blah blah blah" popup is the information, carefully worded as to not be too alarmist, that that person's friends' data (i.e. me) will also be sucked up. At that point, why just stop at friends? Why not go to any transitive rela…
The same argument could be said today about your web browser. I wrote this comment for people in this conversation to see. Yet you allowed Google Chrome access to the comment. You let your adblocker see it. You let lots of software companies scrape it. You shared the data with a wider audience than I intended. Sure, the argument doesn't hold much water on the public internet. But now consider HN was an invite-only fo…
You’re making the same argument. Public comments are fair game and there’s no expectations of privacy. A private, or invite only, or a network like fb with complex privacy controls is another story entirely.
Re: Facebook sued for ‘losing control’ of users’ data
#118Earlier quoted context omitted.
And does anything about this make Facebook liable for the way CA used the data willingly given to them by their users? Facebook is either: 1. a neutral party, acting on the wishes of its users, who asked to grant CA access to their data. The victims are users and the aggressor is CA for misusing data. Or: 2. a victim party, after CA went against their policies. CA is the aggressor in this scenario, and the users are…
Or 3: The law works differently than you expect. Asking for a victim to find the "root cause" of a problem is too much to ask. If X wronged Y causes a wrong to happen to Z... the legal system is largely designed for "Z sues Y" then "Y sues X". Asking for Z to sue X directly is asking for too much. There's no way for Z to even know that X exists.
> There's no way for Z to even know that X exists
Other than the time that X explicitly and directly asked Z for access to their data, you mean.
This isn't similar to a case where I stored my users' info in a database on Cloud Hosting Service Inc machines, CHS's lax security allowed the data to be hacked, and I am now accountable to my users because I used an insecure service. Facebook's role in this situation was, literally speaking, a permissions broker between the end users and Dr. Kogan. The end users granted Dr. Kogan permission with every opportunity to learn about Dr. Kogan.
Edit: Correction that users had a chance to learn about Dr. Kogan, not CA.
Re: Facebook sued for ‘losing control’ of users’ data
#119Earlier quoted context omitted.
Cambridge Analytica used the Facebook API to ask users to share data about them & their friends. Stupid users agreed to that. According to Facebook, this is not what happened and CA's collection of this data represented a breach in their platform policies [0]: In 2015, we learned that a psychology professor at the University of Cambridge named Dr. Aleksandr Kogan lied to us and violated our Platform Policies by passi…
And does anything about this make Facebook liable for the way CA used the data willingly given to them by their users? Facebook is either: 1. a neutral party, acting on the wishes of its users, who asked to grant CA access to their data. The victims are users and the aggressor is CA for misusing data. Or: 2. a victim party, after CA went against their policies. CA is the aggressor in this scenario, and the users are…
You are saying Facebook users willingly gave their data to CA as if it is a matter of fact. Can I refer you to the post you replied to? Facebook disputes this!
Also, no need to set up a false dichotomy. There are other possibilities. Usually, figuring out liability is a function of the court, thus this legal action. You'll probably get the answer to your question when the suit has been concluded.
Re: Facebook sued for ‘losing control’ of users’ data
#120Earlier quoted context omitted.
Cambridge Analytica used the Facebook API to ask users to share data about them & their friends. Stupid users agreed to that. According to Facebook, this is not what happened and CA's collection of this data represented a breach in their platform policies [0]: In 2015, we learned that a psychology professor at the University of Cambridge named Dr. Aleksandr Kogan lied to us and violated our Platform Policies by passi…
And does anything about this make Facebook liable for the way CA used the data willingly given to them by their users? Facebook is either: 1. a neutral party, acting on the wishes of its users, who asked to grant CA access to their data. The victims are users and the aggressor is CA for misusing data. Or: 2. a victim party, after CA went against their policies. CA is the aggressor in this scenario, and the users are…
Someone is not responsible for causing damages can still be held liable for damages if they were negligent. One could argue that by having policies but not enforcing them, Facebook contributed to the harm befalling users, especially if an argument can be constructed that users relied on Facebook's platform policies as part of deciding whether to share data with CA.