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I followed my dreams to get demoted to software developer

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Re: I followed my dreams to get demoted to software developer

#141

Post by heisenbit »

nomdep wrote: post #105

A terrible career move. As other commenter said, if there wasn't a pay cut, is because of the company charity. Now she has to be not only a good coder but a great one, (and in a tech stack she didn't had used already). Otherwise, a year from now, they might not feel so charitable, and the story will be "from director of design to fired IC". A friend of mine made a similar mistake once, believing the BS of the "parall…

You underestimate the value of having a different perspective. Yes, it can be a bad move if she is a disaster at coding. But think about what value for the company it is to have a developer who has a clue about design and can communicate way above average. How much of our developer job is really about coding?

It is a risky move and not one I would recommend to anyone - but it is one I‘ve done myself (incl. pay cut) to get the experience to boost my career. Also keep in mind that careers span decades and while specialization is sought the landscape does shift (sometimes quickly) and diversity of skills can provide a degree of robustness.

And yes, the career track slides are not a foundation on which to base decisions.

Re: I followed my dreams to get demoted to software developer

#142

Post by wizzard »

Geminidog wrote: post #126
skratlo wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such a horrible misogynistic comment, it saddens me greatly this crap is on top, tells a tale about HN audience. Janitor? Charity? Hot female? Just listen to yourself, you're so full of hate.

I didn't say anything hateful towards women. I think women get this better treatment then men but I didn't say they should turn it down nor did I say they didn't deserve it. I simply pointed out a difference. And what wrong with switching from Janitor to SWE? Same basic job switch from one another field with completely different skillets but completely different treatment due to perceived ranking.

The problem is that you are likening her to a janitor to create the impression that she has zero programming experience. First of all, if you'd read the article you'll find she probably has as much experience as a lot of bootcamp grads. You're also kind of insulting janitors by assuming none of them could possibly have any coding skills.

So many people nowadays learn coding using "non-traditional" means, and some of those people are REALLY good. Her skills were evaluated over a period of time and she was found to be worthy of a place. Why is that so difficult to believe? If this story were about a man, how would your reaction be different?

Re: I followed my dreams to get demoted to software developer

#143

Post by Geminidog »

carlisle_ wrote: post #139
Geminidog wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I find these anecdotes to be completely untrue. You can't find my anecdotal experiences to be untrue because you haven't experienced my anecdotal experience. This is physically impossible. What you can claim is that my anecdotal experiences do not apply to women in engineering corporations in general. However, this is not a claim that I made as I caveated my point with the fact that what I'm saying is based off of m…

>Why can't we focus on the rights of both genders? Ask yourself that question. In response to somebody writing about their experience changing careers you brought up how men aren't treated fairly.

I did. I responded because imo under normal circumstances nobody would be offered this kind of deal. It doesn't make economical sense for the company.

She was given leeway and my guess is because she's a woman among other things. Women do have advantages that men don't.

Women also have disadvantages but that is not my point. I am simply pointing out one area where women have an advantage in a male dominated field. It's a real advantage.

Re: I followed my dreams to get demoted to software developer

#144

Post by trollolo1 »

zapdrive wrote: post #113
carlisle_ wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find these anecdotes to be completely untrue. Women are often assumed to be less competent, and are often passed over during hiring for men of equal competence. I've seen some incredibly useless dudes sit back and rest and vest for months and months without any repercussions. I don't have an equivalent story for women because I work with significantly less women. Let's try focusing on the apparent and obvious biase…

Found the feminist.

Where'd the comment go? I wanted to say tell that guy that my manager is actually competent, so he has my respect, but I would not capitalize the word "boss". He may pay your bills, yet that doesn't make him family[1].

Anyway, I see guys mentoring guys all the time. There's nothing sexual 'bout it!

[1] https://www.grammarly.com/blog/capitalization-family-title/

Re: I followed my dreams to get demoted to software developer

#146

Post by username90 »

tyingq wrote: post #86
CivBase wrote: post #70

Can someone explain to me why titles like Engineer, Architect, and Developer are perceived as having less value than titles like Manager or Director? Managing products requires a completely different skill set from managing people. Both skills are vital to the success of a business and neither are trivially developed or easily replaced. If you ask me, the "demotion" in this article is not going from Director of Desig…

Because Leadership people make policy that rewards Leadership people. Consciously or not.

Yeah, managers higher up have a strong incentive to create compensation structures where managers are paid more the more people they manage. But like, being a manager doesn't say much at all about what you do. A non technical manager who managers engineers doesn't add much value and instead the engineers will be mostly self organizing, as such they are mostly there to provide administrative support. Your average office worker can do that, there is no reason such managers should be well compensated unless they also do other work like product management or similar.

Re: I followed my dreams to get demoted to software developer

#148

Post by bargl »

I switched careers 4 years after I graduated college. It wasn't as much a demotion and more of a lateral move, but it is never too late to change careers.

That isn't to say there is no risk involved. Taking a new position has risks, and just like investing (which we've all heard too much about lately), you want to hedge your risks.

Make sure you've got a good buffer in the bank, potentially a fall back position if it's a pay-cut, talk to your partner (if you have one), check out how to decrease your budget if needed, or supplement for a while if possible.

I love these stories, I love seeing streamers make it, people move from a corporate job to starting their own thing, it's awesome. Most people who were successful had a safety net. They didn't jump without knowing the risks and being able to take the lower pay for a while. They also had a plan to make money. This is really important because I've also seen a ton of people who have been forced to switch careers due to not having a plan to make money.

I'm not a researcher/etc. This is all anecdotal evidence I've seen, just sharing my thoughts and opinions.

Anyway, congrats to anyone who does makes this kind of quality of life change!

Re: I followed my dreams to get demoted to software developer

#149

Post by carlisle_ »

Geminidog wrote: post #143
carlisle_ wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why can't we focus on the rights of both genders? Ask yourself that question. In response to somebody writing about their experience changing careers you brought up how men aren't treated fairly.

I did. I responded because imo under normal circumstances nobody would be offered this kind of deal. It doesn't make economical sense for the company. She was given leeway and my guess is because she's a woman among other things. Women do have advantages that men don't. Women also have disadvantages but that is not my point. I am simply pointing out one area where women have an advantage in a male dominated field. It…

Oh no, women have one advantage over men (if it were true) in a male dominated field.

How do you not see how contradictory that statement is?

Re: I followed my dreams to get demoted to software developer

#150

Post by eeZah7Ux »

stronglikedan wrote: post #94
CivBase wrote: post #70

Can someone explain to me why titles like Engineer, Architect, and Developer are perceived as having less value than titles like Manager or Director? Managing products requires a completely different skill set from managing people. Both skills are vital to the success of a business and neither are trivially developed or easily replaced. If you ask me, the "demotion" in this article is not going from Director of Desig…

Because, as a manager, you're responsible for the mistakes your people make, not them.

"Associates" are fired with no warning and no reason.

Employees are the first to get fired when a company struggles.

Managers are less likely to be fired, and when it happens they can have more savings as they salaries are higher.

CEOs quit failing companies with multi-million exit bonuses.

So no, salaries are based on power, and so is the ability to dodge risks and responsibilities.

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