Earlier quoted context omitted.
Some people think the internet should be beyond the control of a single government, and perhaps by extension so too should the financial system. There are a lot of caveats to this idea.
Even for those that do, a network capable of handling maybe a few million transactions per day while consuming more energy than many small countries is so obviously useless in that regard that it should be abandoned entirely.
Green hackers around the world, let’s destroy Bitcoin
141–150 of 266 posts
Re: Green hackers around the world, let’s destroy Bitcoin
#142Earlier quoted context omitted.
1. Bitcoin mining is a race to cheap power, it's of course going to lead to more efficient power delivery technologies. Excess energy being created by hydrodams is being sold to fund infrastructure and to subsidize energy costs during dry seasons. Oil companies are capturing energy once wasted: https://news.bitcoin.com/bitcoin-helps-oil-companies-reduce-... Bitcoin is an energy currency.
> Bitcoin is an energy currency. Not a currency, but a digital asset that wastes enormous amounts of energy.
What do I do with my profits from mining bitcoin? Send my kids to college, buy groceries, remodel my bathroom, etc. It's an entire ecosystem, speculatively mining bitcoin by consuming electricity is just as evil as driving 1.5hrs to work because you're too lazy to find something near your house for example. People expend trillions of dollars in energy "mining" fiat.
Re: Green hackers around the world, let’s destroy Bitcoin
#143As a Bitcoin proponent who is also concerned about it's long term sustainability, this post is an embarrassing read. The author clearly has a very poor understanding of what value Bitcoin currently has in our current macro-economic situation, and why investors (and corporations) are choosing to allocate larger parts of their portfolios in cryptocurrencies. Calling out the BTC network on its energetic inefficiency com…
"Calling out the BTC network on its energetic inefficiency completely misses the point that the work put into the network is exactly the scarce digital asset, and hence the store of value." That's no excuse for the obscene waste of resources.
What's the CO2 footprint of standing armies around the world? Have you tried cancelling that?
Re: Green hackers around the world, let’s destroy Bitcoin
#144I supported bitcoin when it first came out because I support the idea of decentralised, trustless money. Far too much money is redirected into the hands of financial workers who are not adding any value to the economy. Finance is good and necessary, but the way it currently works is not. But bitcoin simply does not work as money. There is really no doubt about this. Even the biggest proponents of bitcoin right now ca…
We do need digital gold to be able to have market of cryptocurrencies that are actually in use and not just being speculated on with fiat. Sidechains enable that. The whole waste argument is ridiculous on so many levels. I imagine these people shouting at people houses - turn off that AC! You are wasting energy for which you have paid! We could have made so many aluminum cans with that! And if you say that sure, let'…
> I think many heating elements will also be doing some computation. The fact that they are not - that is a waste.
This is very interesting. But something doesn't seem quite right to me if everyone was passively mining Bitcoin by heating their home. This requires more thought.
The trouble with thinking about any of this too much, though, is it's all completely absurd in the end. All of this: money, gold, other elements we dig out of the ground just to store in vaults somewhere. Buying commodities we never intend to own, much less use. It's layers upon layers of absurdity just to make sure our neighbour doesn't get a larger slice of the pie than we do. Adults tell children to stop arguing and share their toys. This is surely the greatest source of hypocrisy there is.
The only way out of madness, I think, is just to accept that for whatever reason our current systems work somehow. We aren't cold or hungry. In fact, we have access to hundreds of times more than we really need. The only thing that really needs fixing is sustainability. That's the only thing! What we currently have isn't fair; some people do get bigger slices of the pie. But we all get enough. So just quit your whining, enjoy your pie, and work on sustainability. If we can make this whole thing sustainable, then you can start trying to hyper-optimise your pie allocation, but before that time you're just decorating a sinking ship.
Re: Green hackers around the world, let’s destroy Bitcoin
#145Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Bitcoin is an energy currency. Not a currency, but a digital asset that wastes enormous amounts of energy.
Last year it transacted more than a trillion dollars in transactions. It's in the top 20 or so of world currencies, and it's still in its infancy (thus volatility etc).
Re: Green hackers around the world, let’s destroy Bitcoin
#146Controversial opinions below: Feeling might be hurt. - Bitcoin is popular in the west and the US specifically because it lacks the cutting edge financial networks rest of the world has. Citizens in China, India, Kenya etc can do transactions in a jiffy using their existing bank accounts, whereas ACH clearance takes longer time. - The digital Gold-rush aspect, HODLing, and no regulation makes it more lucrative to play…
My understanding of the space contradicts each of your points. So without either of us providing citations, both of our opinions are pretty useless to the casual reader. But I will add some thoughts here. > The [humongous] energy wastage of the network should be the biggest cause of concern, but most proponents shoo it away by buzzwords like lightning network etc. Lightning Network is a second layer payment network t…
I am a casual observer and have no investment in BTC and the comments are what I feel based on the news that reaches me. For me the most critical aspect is the energy waste, and the lack of regulation. I know crypto-anarchists distrust the govt, but if I've to choose between the r/WSB like extreme evangelism (HODL!) and Fed, I would chose the later safe option.
> Bitcoin is not "popular" anywhere.
But it is quite popular in the technological discourses and it comes up often as the future of payments. That's quite a big mindshare IMO.
> The infrastructure is still developing to support larger volumes of users - and with more diverse levels of computer skills.
I would love to be proven wrong and learn something new about the sector that increases my confidence.
Re: Green hackers around the world, let’s destroy Bitcoin
#147No joke, I want to apeal to the Greta Thunberg type activists/followers and Extinction Rebellion crowds; so, if Franck Leroy wants to have a chat (your misguided attack is absurd and BTC just hit another ATH in the time you wrote that) I extend a friendly open-invitation to discuss how as an environmentalist myself with a background in sustainable Ag, farmers rights, farm to table, and anti nuclear activism we can ge…
It's amazing how nobody on this board understands it.
Re: Green hackers around the world, let’s destroy Bitcoin
#148As a Bitcoin proponent who is also concerned about it's long term sustainability, this post is an embarrassing read. The author clearly has a very poor understanding of what value Bitcoin currently has in our current macro-economic situation, and why investors (and corporations) are choosing to allocate larger parts of their portfolios in cryptocurrencies. Calling out the BTC network on its energetic inefficiency com…
> Calling out the BTC network on its energetic inefficiency completely misses the point that the work put into the network is exactly the scarce digital asset, and hence the store of value. Why would that matter? The problem is the huge amount of greenhouse gases getting released because of this store of value. Whether it makes some economic sense or not is irrelevant to the discussion of whether it should be allowed…
Re: Green hackers around the world, let’s destroy Bitcoin
#149I'm no fan of Bitcoin, seeing the project as essentially coopted and sabotaged, but I see this 'green' criticism as totally baseless. As I wrote a couple weeks ago: If you want to take a Puritanical attitude, any luxury product/service can be argued to be wasting resources that could be expended on essentials. In other words, its alleged lack of utility doesn't provide a justification for destroying or banning it. It…
Except everything people do with Bitcoin could be done just as well with a less obscenely wasteful coin.
Re: Green hackers around the world, let’s destroy Bitcoin
#150I see Bitcoin like a 21st century Apollo project. While I agree the resources appear wasted, they are supporting a revolutionary concept that holds tremendous potential to change the way the world works. Also, consider the scale of resources used by the existing financial system, with its thousands of buildings staffed by millions of people who use energy to come into work every day to keep the whole centralized syst…
It's not revolutionary. For almost every use case, blockchain solution are almost always inferior to the alternatives. As a payment system, it's sluggish, wasteful, and in 2021 STILL poorly adopted. I'm not arguing anything about the current system of doing financial transactions. But the environmental disaster that is BTC has to die. If there is truly a need for innovation in the digital currency space, it should be…
We need to focus on decomissioning coal/gas power plants and combustion motors for transport. That will get us at least 60%.