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Green hackers around the world, let’s destroy Bitcoin

franck-leroy.medium.com

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Re: Green hackers around the world, let’s destroy Bitcoin

#111

Post by lottin »

CryptoUnchained wrote: post #81
tsimionescu wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is a very bad comparison, for several reasons. 1. With the Apollo missions, the money being put into the project was going into research and development, so there was at least some expectation of getting new science and technology out of it. With Bitcoin,nthe money put in is going into speculation or mining, which only fuels the network. There is no reason to expect new technologies to come out of this,…

1. Bitcoin mining is a race to cheap power, it's of course going to lead to more efficient power delivery technologies. Excess energy being created by hydrodams is being sold to fund infrastructure and to subsidize energy costs during dry seasons. Oil companies are capturing energy once wasted: https://news.bitcoin.com/bitcoin-helps-oil-companies-reduce-... Bitcoin is an energy currency.

> Bitcoin is an energy currency.

Not a currency, but a digital asset that wastes enormous amounts of energy.

Re: Green hackers around the world, let’s destroy Bitcoin

#112

Post by shawnz »

jonhendry18 wrote: post #98
shawnz wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Making Bitcoin deliberately worse would also hinder the development of those future improvements in efficiency, perhaps actually leading to proof-of-work systems being around for even longer.

Er, no it wouldn't? You don't need Bitcoin around to do that.

I didn't say you need it, but it incentivized the development of those more efficient cryptocurrency technologies by providing a decentralized store of value in which the market could build trust in the interim period where proof-of-stake technologies were still being developed.

What I am saying is that perhaps proof-of-work coins actually bootstrapped proof-of-stake technologies, thus leading to more rapid development of cryptocurrency technology in general.

Re: Green hackers around the world, let’s destroy Bitcoin

#113

Post by inter_netuser »

nnx wrote: post #109

Bitcoin is actually a (if not the) great accelerator for cheap renewable energy (hydro, solar, etc) by being a market incentive. Even helps reducing methane emissions flaring from oil fields by putting that flaring to productive use (hashing) instead of releasing it into atmosphere, see https://gam.ai/ for instance.

Bitcoin is the best bounty for clean fusion power.

Direct monetary incentives.

Re: Green hackers around the world, let’s destroy Bitcoin

#114

Post by pineaux »

I think it's mostly CCP strategy to control as much cryptospace as possible, be it via exchanges or miners. I believe china is in the game of using any method to undermine the western hegemony in the world. This is not even controversial. I'm even willing to believe that the whole covid-19 crisis is leveraged by them for relative power gains. There's not much evidence for this, but that's what I would do. I think the cryptomining rigs could eventually be claimed by the government to house a large general AI and destroy the crypto market in one swing. If I were the Chinese government I would at least entertain that idea. The fact that people don't care about crypto not being really decentralized makes me believe china would research such ploys. They are growing their power in any domain they can get away with, this is one of them.

- south chinese sea islands

- HK annexation

- pressuring Taiwan and constructing infrastructure towards the island.

- hacking attacks

- tibet (making sure homeland security is maximal)

- the concentration camps with Uyghurs (making sure homeland security is maximal)

- the infrastructural projects in africa to gain access to resources

- the buying of as much european assets (like ports, factories, real estate) as possible.

- the state assisted development of large cyber start-ups/companies (jack ma didn't disappear for nothing)

- the state infiltration of big technology firms like huawei 5g and others.

It seems like a clear picture to me.

One of America's greatest strategical assets is the dollar being the world's reserve currency. It's basically a way to be able to print almost endless amounts of dollars without the punitive danger of inflation. Other countries will buy your excess money to make sure their reserves won't devalue.

If china wants hegemony, they would need to undermine this asset in a subtle way. If bitcoin becomes very mainstream and more stable, then this will become the new reserve currency. With the air of being unbiased. However, china controls many of the levers.

Just my three cents.

Re: Green hackers around the world, let’s destroy Bitcoin

#116

Post by primitivesuave »

Yajirobe wrote: post #41
primitivesuave wrote: post #33

I see Bitcoin like a 21st century Apollo project. While I agree the resources appear wasted, they are supporting a revolutionary concept that holds tremendous potential to change the way the world works. Also, consider the scale of resources used by the existing financial system, with its thousands of buildings staffed by millions of people who use energy to come into work every day to keep the whole centralized syst…

> change the way the world works Change how exactly? To me bitcoin seems like this: Expectation: the world ditches banks, dollars, euros, etc. People switch to bitcoin and everyone lives happily, paying for everyday stuff with bitcoin. Reality: people do not use bitcoin to buy groceries. In fact, people do not use bitcoin per se - people are only interested in buying and holding (speculating).

I don't think any technology will ever be adopted in a drastic switch, but I can definitely see it happening gradually. Consider some future cloud hosting provider that accepts payment in cryptocurrency (not necessarily Bitcoin) - someone building a SaaS product could charge customers in that currency, and take advantage of financial instruments that are much more difficult to implement with traditional banking (micropayments, smart contracts, etc).

Re: Green hackers around the world, let’s destroy Bitcoin

#117

Post by inter_netuser »

lottin wrote: post #111
CryptoUnchained wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Bitcoin mining is a race to cheap power, it's of course going to lead to more efficient power delivery technologies. Excess energy being created by hydrodams is being sold to fund infrastructure and to subsidize energy costs during dry seasons. Oil companies are capturing energy once wasted: https://news.bitcoin.com/bitcoin-helps-oil-companies-reduce-... Bitcoin is an energy currency.

> Bitcoin is an energy currency. Not a currency, but a digital asset that wastes enormous amounts of energy.

Last year it transacted more than a trillion dollars in transactions.

It's in the top 20 or so of world currencies, and it's still in its infancy (thus volatility etc).

Re: Green hackers around the world, let’s destroy Bitcoin

#118

Post by lottin »

midjji wrote: post #73
Yajirobe wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> change the way the world works Change how exactly? To me bitcoin seems like this: Expectation: the world ditches banks, dollars, euros, etc. People switch to bitcoin and everyone lives happily, paying for everyday stuff with bitcoin. Reality: people do not use bitcoin to buy groceries. In fact, people do not use bitcoin per se - people are only interested in buying and holding (speculating).

Its also popular as a means to withdraw resources from dictatorships, basically improving private property protections at the expense of state ability to control their population.

How exactly someone can "withdraw resources from a dictatorship" using bitcoin?

Re: Green hackers around the world, let’s destroy Bitcoin

#119

Post by thepete2 »

heckerhut wrote: post #35

Idea: Change BTC protocol to include a new field in coinbase transactions documenting the CO2 emissions of each block. Introduce an uncle block reward like ETH. Miners agree to audits of their reports. Make block reward dependent on carbon emissions. Use rest for offset programs.

Why not just use proof of stake and get it of all the useless nonce-calculations?

Re: Green hackers around the world, let’s destroy Bitcoin

#120

Post by skinnyasianboi »

ggm wrote: post #22

Putting to one side if the attack would work, or have perverse outcomes, I do have concerns about the ludicrous amount of dirty energy used to mine coins. Proof of stake would terminate that problem?

Yes it would solve the problem. Don't want to look like spam because I replied to a few other comments already but have a look at Cardano Ouroboros
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