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Green hackers around the world, let’s destroy Bitcoin

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Re: Green hackers around the world, let’s destroy Bitcoin

#81

Post by CryptoUnchained »

tsimionescu wrote: post #50
primitivesuave wrote: post #33

I see Bitcoin like a 21st century Apollo project. While I agree the resources appear wasted, they are supporting a revolutionary concept that holds tremendous potential to change the way the world works. Also, consider the scale of resources used by the existing financial system, with its thousands of buildings staffed by millions of people who use energy to come into work every day to keep the whole centralized syst…

I think this is a very bad comparison, for several reasons. 1. With the Apollo missions, the money being put into the project was going into research and development, so there was at least some expectation of getting new science and technology out of it. With Bitcoin,nthe money put in is going into speculation or mining, which only fuels the network. There is no reason to expect new technologies to come out of this,…

1. Bitcoin mining is a race to cheap power, it's of course going to lead to more efficient power delivery technologies. Excess energy being created by hydrodams is being sold to fund infrastructure and to subsidize energy costs during dry seasons. Oil companies are capturing energy once wasted: https://news.bitcoin.com/bitcoin-helps-oil-companies-reduce-...

Bitcoin is an energy currency.

Re: Green hackers around the world, let’s destroy Bitcoin

#82

Post by inter_netuser »

FlyingSnake wrote: post #60
emteycz wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People actually use Bitcoin - to transfer money across the world where other options are unavailable or too expensive. It's very popular in Africa.

> It's very popular in Africa. Source? Africa has mPesa which is vastly superior than BTC

Remittances by traditional methods fell by 97% in Nigeria. Central bank had to ban Bitcoin.

Look it up. It's real.

Re: Green hackers around the world, let’s destroy Bitcoin

#83

Post by skinnyasianboi »

medecau wrote: post #23
tluyben2 wrote: post #11

Better promote 'non-shit' shitcoins then instead? Because this 'plan' won't really work/do much.

I'm out of the loop on blockchain currencies. What would be a good 'non-shit' shitcoin?

Have a look at Cardano Ouroboros: "An environmentally sustainable, verifiably secure proof-of-stake protocol with rigorous security guarantees."

Re: Green hackers around the world, let’s destroy Bitcoin

#85

Post by FlyingSnake »

Controversial opinions below: Feeling might be hurt.

- Bitcoin is popular in the west and the US specifically because it lacks the cutting edge financial networks rest of the world has. Citizens in China, India, Kenya etc can do transactions in a jiffy using their existing bank accounts, whereas ACH clearance takes longer time.

- The digital Gold-rush aspect, HODLing, and no regulation makes it more lucrative to players who would love to cash out big on it. Greed trumps it all.

- Most of the BTC mining has been cornered by big mining, and it's way out of reach of regular Joe. This doesn't look democratic to me.

- The hugmongous energy wastage of the network should be the biggest cause of concern, but most proponents shoo it away by buzzwords like lightning network etc.

Re: Green hackers around the world, let’s destroy Bitcoin

#86

Post by midjji »

ForHackernews wrote: post #26
yuvadam wrote: post #17

As a Bitcoin proponent who is also concerned about it's long term sustainability, this post is an embarrassing read. The author clearly has a very poor understanding of what value Bitcoin currently has in our current macro-economic situation, and why investors (and corporations) are choosing to allocate larger parts of their portfolios in cryptocurrencies. Calling out the BTC network on its energetic inefficiency com…

> the work put into the network is exactly the scarce asset that is being invested in. No! No it isn't! Gah! I'm sorry but it is so frustrating to hear this nonsense repeated over and over. Bitcoin is not valuable just because you wasted shedloads of energy to make a bitcoin! It's valuable because somebody else will exchange something of value for it. It's incredibly maddening how so many crypto-libertarians suddenly…

The value lies not in the energy but in its utility to facilitate transfers without the expressed permission of some authority.

The energy isnt wasted though, the safety of the trustless transaction is proportional to the expended energy. While not the source of value, it is a necessity, not a waste.

Re: Green hackers around the world, let’s destroy Bitcoin

#87

Post by wegs »

midjji wrote: post #73
Yajirobe wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> change the way the world works Change how exactly? To me bitcoin seems like this: Expectation: the world ditches banks, dollars, euros, etc. People switch to bitcoin and everyone lives happily, paying for everyday stuff with bitcoin. Reality: people do not use bitcoin to buy groceries. In fact, people do not use bitcoin per se - people are only interested in buying and holding (speculating).

Its also popular as a means to withdraw resources from dictatorships, basically improving private property protections at the expense of state ability to control their population.

You mean "withdraw resources by dictatorships", not "from" dictatorships.

As a dictator, my goal is to fill my bank accounts for when I get deposed. In most cases, countries who have their resources fleeced have lawful means to go after former dictators. Bitcoin removes that.

Re: Green hackers around the world, let’s destroy Bitcoin

#88

Post by jonhendry18 »

mckirk wrote: post #67
ForHackernews wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the work put into the network is exactly the scarce asset that is being invested in. No! No it isn't! Gah! I'm sorry but it is so frustrating to hear this nonsense repeated over and over. Bitcoin is not valuable just because you wasted shedloads of energy to make a bitcoin! It's valuable because somebody else will exchange something of value for it. It's incredibly maddening how so many crypto-libertarians suddenly…

But why are people willing to exchange something of value for it? Because they can trust in it serving as a secure way to transfer tokens of ownership. And that is only possible thanks to the PoW computations, which have to be expensive enough that attacking the system would be more costly than the value you could extract through an attack. So, in a sense its value indeed derives directly from the work put into the s…

Doesn't sound like it's worth torching the only inhabitable planet for.

Re: Green hackers around the world, let’s destroy Bitcoin

#89

Post by inter_netuser »

Proof of work exists maintain unforgeable costliness.

It's a basic pre-requisite without which you cannot have digital scarcity, because it would be far too easy and too cheap to forge/create new coins. It's amazing how early we still are in Bitcoin after 12 years. Almost nobody on this forum understands why proof of work exists, and yet most people here are intelligent enough and have enough technical skill to figure out why.

It is much greener than: napalm, nuclear weapons, etc. Trillions are spent every year on war to maintain the reserve currency status.

Would you really rather prefer to spend trillions on standing armies, rather than incentivize cheap fusion reactors?

Re: Green hackers around the world, let’s destroy Bitcoin

#90

Post by LittlePeter »

marmadukester39 wrote: post #53
medecau wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm out of the loop on blockchain currencies. What would be a good 'non-shit' shitcoin?

I like Iota a lot. Decentralized, no fees (to get a transaction validated, you validate others) low energy requirements, lots of industrial partnerships. About to get smart contracts a-la Ethereum, but without the out of control costs for transactions.

IOTA arguably is not decentralized at the moment and has questionable history: https://www.coindesk.com/iota-being-shut-off-is-the-latest-c...
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