Earlier quoted context omitted.
Tesla is just going through the growing pains of ramping production so their repair story is still a work in progress at the moment. They make it work as needed, but it’s not always ideal nor as widely available everywhere as people hope yet. It will get better. Disabling supercharging for DIY battery fix/hack jobs I assume is done to protect the network so that other cars are not impacted by a potentially incorrect…
>I believe it’s usually a heathy practice in life to look for the straightforward explanations that don’t assume bad motives in the part of the actor you are looking at. I hope that you balance it with a healthy skepticism of a publicly traded company's justifications for their profits. Tesla sells heated seats etc and when you buy it, what you get is a software update enabling the existing hardware - it's artificial…
Ford Makes $29B Commitment to Electric and Self-Driving Cars
121–130 of 183 posts
Re: Ford Makes $29B Commitment to Electric and Self-Driving Cars
#122Earlier quoted context omitted.
There are so many more issues. They have lots of plants that Tesla doesn't need or want. Even worse, you can't close down those plants because of unions and politics. Tesla doesn't want unions in general. Battery being the limiting factor means that having more ability to produce cars is basically useless.
The fact that "Tesla doesn't want unions in general" is a sad anti-pattern. Unions are the way that labor negotiates with capital on an equal basis. The fact that the US has a badly flawed labor market where things that shouldn't be tied to employment (eg healthcare, pensions/retirement) are still tied to employment, is a bug, not a feature. Tesla will not be able to avoid "unions" if they manufacture in Europe. Neit…
Re: Ford Makes $29B Commitment to Electric and Self-Driving Cars
#123It seems like I’ve seen this movie before. A large automotive consortium puts out an optimistic press release announcing its full commitment to EVs https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1086902_volkswagen-will... Then it turns out that the primary cost contributor to an EV is the cost of batteries. Automakers being relative nobodies on the lithium market, they are paying retail for it and passing the mark-ups to you,…
> The large company discontinues the vehicle lineup, citing overrun cost issues and market disinterest for EVs save for a few Tesla fanboy diehards. We're at the bottom of the hockey stick here. There is no "discontinued lineup", in 10 years if you don't have a viable EV platform, you are closing your doors. It might be sooner than that. By the time Ford even starts to see return on their $29B it's likely to be a who…
I for once hope that the bragging from EU about the H2 infrastructure is not usual hot air. It is really good to see major manufacturers coming up with H2 power plant ideas. In 10 years, I’m looking to drive a fuel cell powered car.
It’s not going to be a popular opinion here but IMO, battery powered cars are a dead end. The range will always be limited by physics. Batteries are manufactured from resources dug out of the ground. It’s really dumb to carry a ton of empty batteries when running low on load, it only contributes to wearing tires faster. 10 ton hauling tractors? Who’s going to build the road infrastructure to support that. The grid has its capacity too. Today? Sure - as an alternative to ICE, an EV makes some people feel better. 10 years from now? I’m not sure.
Re: Ford Makes $29B Commitment to Electric and Self-Driving Cars
#124I've been a car guy since my teens, and have nearly everyone around me be some sort of mechanic but I've wondered a couple things about why electric vehicles will have mass appeal. Most electric vehicles seem to have their value based in the battery pack, but these batteries packs have a life span of 10~ years, right? Do these vehicles have zero value after ten years (assuming the batteries are bad then), high mileag…
Re: Ford Makes $29B Commitment to Electric and Self-Driving Cars
#125Earlier quoted context omitted.
This so much sounds like all the PR stunt cars that renault put out. You literally have to lease a battery on top of the absurd prices, and you cannot get it changed for free, even when you lease it. Which makes all their cars basically useless after a year of usage, because the batteries are embedded in their chassis. Every time I compare European manufacturers to Tesla and Nissan, they are such a bad joke. Nissan h…
Renault sold more EV cars than any other manufacturer in Europe.
https://www.volkswagenag.com/en/brands-and-models.html
Volkswagen also sold more BEVs than Renault-Nissan globally:
https://ev-sales.blogspot.com/2021/02/2020-sales-by-oem.html
Re: Ford Makes $29B Commitment to Electric and Self-Driving Cars
#126Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The large company discontinues the vehicle lineup, citing overrun cost issues and market disinterest for EVs save for a few Tesla fanboy diehards. We're at the bottom of the hockey stick here. There is no "discontinued lineup", in 10 years if you don't have a viable EV platform, you are closing your doors. It might be sooner than that. By the time Ford even starts to see return on their $29B it's likely to be a who…
> in 10 years if you don't have a viable EV platform, you are closing your doors I for once hope that the bragging from EU about the H2 infrastructure is not usual hot air. It is really good to see major manufacturers coming up with H2 power plant ideas. In 10 years, I’m looking to drive a fuel cell powered car. It’s not going to be a popular opinion here but IMO, battery powered cars are a dead end. The range will a…
Re: Ford Makes $29B Commitment to Electric and Self-Driving Cars
#127Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s unclear what happens to the batteries after such a long period. The first modern EVs are still only 5-6 years old. That said the battery degradation on EVs with active thermal management looks pretty good. It’s plausible that batteries in the future will last the entire lifespan of the vehicle: at least 200k miles. The most common repairs on an EV can be done at your regular mechanic. The only thing that will pr…
I feel like with the reliability and durability of EV's the used market will not have remarkably low prices compared to gas cars. Low income families will still go with gas as they will get cheaper as well.
You also have to keep in mind that the economies of scale for EVS are just ramping up. They're more expensive now brand new but it won't be long at all before they're priced competitively against gas cars at the dealer.
Also, a carbon tax will happen sooner or later. That will push people from all income levels towards electric vehicles.
Re: Ford Makes $29B Commitment to Electric and Self-Driving Cars
#128Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The large company discontinues the vehicle lineup, citing overrun cost issues and market disinterest for EVs save for a few Tesla fanboy diehards. We're at the bottom of the hockey stick here. There is no "discontinued lineup", in 10 years if you don't have a viable EV platform, you are closing your doors. It might be sooner than that. By the time Ford even starts to see return on their $29B it's likely to be a who…
> in 10 years if you don't have a viable EV platform, you are closing your doors I for once hope that the bragging from EU about the H2 infrastructure is not usual hot air. It is really good to see major manufacturers coming up with H2 power plant ideas. In 10 years, I’m looking to drive a fuel cell powered car. It’s not going to be a popular opinion here but IMO, battery powered cars are a dead end. The range will a…
You need the fuel cell itself, and that is not just some thin layer, but a whole complex subsystem that requires all kind of system around it. Then you need a very heavy high pressure tank and a high pressure fuel system. Looking at H2 cars and the amount of parts these system adds is illuminating.
Next up, you can make a battery completely structural, meaning the battery actually serves the function that the steel frame used to serve in a car. Integrated like that, the battery weight is almost negative.
Battery technology is improving fast, with both cost going down and energy and power density going up year over year. H2 cars can not compete in the current environment and there are no projection that they ever can.
Pretty much everybody has now given up on H2 cars ever being remotely viable. Some people are still holding on to the hope for H2 in trucking, but some large truck companies have already dropped it, and with Tesla Semi going into mass production, people will realize that H2 trucking has no future as they have realized it with cars.
You also seem to ignore all the negatives of H2. Fuel station that are about 100-1000x more expensive per station, and you need more of them. You can't charge over night at home with energy that is largely already available. Even if EU government funded H2 is successful, that would still not be enough for all of transportation, not even close.
The majority of hydrogen for the foreseeable future will by methane based and when the grid will already be almost totally carbon free, much of hydrogen on the planet will still not be carbon free.
And if you are talking 'in 10 years' you need to also look forward to what batteries will be like in 10 years. In 10 years its possible that we could have lithium sulphur batteries. Such batteries would be incredibly cheap and have crazy high energy density. Battery that cost a few 100$ and fits in a glove box could give multiple 100 miles to a small car. That is just one possible battery tech that might be viable in 10 years.
Last, let me address your point about mining. While of course the extra subsystems for H2 also need materials, a much bigger issue you have ignored. A FCEV is inherently significantly less efficient, this means that even if you are producing all the H2 with solar and win, the total amount of solar and wind required would mean you would need a significant amount more solar and wind. Guess what that requires, significantly more mining, more solar panels covering more nature, more wind turbines everywhere (that people already hate).
I really don't understand people love for these hydrogen fuel cell vehicles.
Re: Ford Makes $29B Commitment to Electric and Self-Driving Cars
#129Earlier quoted context omitted.
This kind of uninformed negativity is why I'm loaded up on GM calls. GM btw, has no debt (at least in the way you are thinking).
GM has about $100B in debt https://www.benzinga.com/news/20/09/17407586/a-look-into-gen... . Help me understand how I’m misinterpreting this.
In my opinion this is crazy. With EV at an inflection point, the value of used ICE cars will totally collapse and newly produced ICE cars will lose massive amounts of value as well.
The whole structure of how GM does business will make no sense in the future.
Why anybody would invest in a GM when there are amazing plays in the battery industry that is growing 50-100% every year is beyond me.
Re: Ford Makes $29B Commitment to Electric and Self-Driving Cars
#130Earlier quoted context omitted.
Renault sold more EV cars than any other manufacturer in Europe.
No, Volkswagen was the biggest EV manufacturer in Europe in 2020. Volkswagen owns 12 brands: https://www.volkswagenag.com/en/brands-and-models.html Volkswagen also sold more BEVs than Renault-Nissan globally: https://ev-sales.blogspot.com/2021/02/2020-sales-by-oem.html