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How to lower the price of plant-based meat

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Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#271

Post by hntrader »

zionic wrote: post #4

I'm far more interested in cultured/clean meat grown from real cells.

Same. I'm highly sceptical of plant-based meat substitutes from a health perspective. There's so much we don't know about micronutrients, bioavailability, and the human body, I don't believe that these highly processed alternatives are fully known to be healthy replacements for real meat, even if they tick the macronutrient boxes of sufficient protein and B-complex. It strikes me as something akin to a tasty multivitamin at best.

We're already so far removed from the way out ancestors ate meat (various organs, connective tissue) and this is yet another step away from that.

Cultured meat seems to be a way to get the real thing without the negative side effects of environment damage and animal cruelty.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#272

Post by megablast »

hunter-gatherer wrote: post #205
henrikschroder wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think it pushes away those who are on the cusp of moving towards plant-base foods. I think you are completely wrong. People eat meat because they like the taste and the texture, but at the same time everyone knows that meat is produced by killing animals, and that it's much less sustainable than vegetarian food. If you want to get people to switch to meat alternatives, you have to keep everything that's great abo…

> People eat meat because they like the taste and the texture, but at the same time everyone knows that meat is produced by killing animals, and that it's much less sustainable than vegetarian food. I think this is too generous. Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but the implicit message here is that people actually care about the animals and sustainability of meat farming. My spouse is vegetarian and I'm whatever. I don't…

> have had the conversation of the horrors of meat production many times at the dinner table with a spectrum of people, and nobody changed their habits.

You’re conclusion is faulty. There can be many reasons for these people to keep eating meet, from they don’t believe you, they don’t like your argument, they still think it worth the animals pain, they don’t think they have a choice, or they’ve always done it.

For someone to conclude from their own argument at a dinner table anything substantive is very strange.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#273

Post by scythe »

WaitWaitWha wrote: post #143

A tangential topic - I really think that in general calling plant-based things "meat", a terrible idea. It does not promote plant-base diet or meat consumption reduction. It is trying to be what is not. I think it pushes away those who are on the cusp of moving towards plant-base foods. Why? Because the consumer is told it is "meat", so they will compare it to meat. They will compare these patties to a real, prime An…

>If we could be honest and declare them what they are, plant-based patties

The problem, really, is to increase the textural variety of plant-based proteins. Currently you have bean products on a spectrum from soft tofu to faux-chorizo, which taste essentially like beans at varying levels of chewiness. (Generally, the two ends of this spectrum are my favorites.) The interest in meats depends at least somewhat on there being a variety of textures (fish, chicken, pulled pork, ground beef); producing just one texture only gets you so far.

A reasonably cheap plant-based mimic of bone broth, Greek yogurt, egg white (protein-based), or parmesan cheese could probably have as much impact as a single meat substiute. A few of these have been made with starches (aquafaba for eggs; various gums for yogurt), but not proteins.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#274

Post by henrikschroder »

Grustaf wrote: post #227
henrikschroder wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think it pushes away those who are on the cusp of moving towards plant-base foods. I think you are completely wrong. People eat meat because they like the taste and the texture, but at the same time everyone knows that meat is produced by killing animals, and that it's much less sustainable than vegetarian food. If you want to get people to switch to meat alternatives, you have to keep everything that's great abo…

Well you could also just promote delicious vegetarian dishes. There are entire cultures that mostly eat vegetarian. Fake meat is such a silly concept.

...and another person who completely misses the point, and don't understand why people eat meat.

Which delicious vegetarian dishes offer the same taste and texture as meat dishes?

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#275

Post by Aerroon »

markdown wrote: post #169
nemo44x wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you considered why we do this? How would our society be different if only well-to-do people could eat meat regularly? Would a regular guy be content with wealthy people eating steaks while jet-setting around the globe because of climate change? I think a populist uprising would occur almost immediately and we’d see heads on pikes with their decapitated mouths stuffed with cabbage for all to see. It would be supe…

This is nonsense. People elsewhere in the world pay 50% to 100% more than what Americans pay for beef. Removing some subsidies and making beef slightly more expensive would save money and people would just eat beef one day less/week.

And they'll replace their meat with what? More sugar? Bread? Sugary bread? I think you underestimate how big of a deal food is to people. I believe that any change will be towards food that's even worse for people.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#276

Post by f430 »

scottLobster wrote: post #237
hunter-gatherer wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People eat meat because they like the taste and the texture, but at the same time everyone knows that meat is produced by killing animals, and that it's much less sustainable than vegetarian food. I think this is too generous. Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but the implicit message here is that people actually care about the animals and sustainability of meat farming. My spouse is vegetarian and I'm whatever. I don't…

As an avid meat-eater (because nature almost by definition is living things eating other living things and humans evolved to be omnivorous for various nutritional reasons), my answer to the animal cruelty argument is just to buy the top-shelf, pasture-raised meats. It's better for my health and much better for the animals. Obviously I have no control over where restaurants source their food from, but I try to prefere…

> my answer to the animal cruelty argument is just to buy the top-shelf, pasture-raised meats.

So the solution is to pay more. Got it.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#277

Post by monkeycantype »

henrikschroder wrote: post #164
WaitWaitWha wrote: post #143

A tangential topic - I really think that in general calling plant-based things "meat", a terrible idea. It does not promote plant-base diet or meat consumption reduction. It is trying to be what is not. I think it pushes away those who are on the cusp of moving towards plant-base foods. Why? Because the consumer is told it is "meat", so they will compare it to meat. They will compare these patties to a real, prime An…

> I think it pushes away those who are on the cusp of moving towards plant-base foods. I think you are completely wrong. People eat meat because they like the taste and the texture, but at the same time everyone knows that meat is produced by killing animals, and that it's much less sustainable than vegetarian food. If you want to get people to switch to meat alternatives, you have to keep everything that's great abo…

I agree. The marketing innovation that has made plant meat successful (at least where I am) has been marketing it to meat eaters in the meat aisle, stripping away the vegetarian identity association

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#278

Post by jchw »

hunter-gatherer wrote: post #205
henrikschroder wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think it pushes away those who are on the cusp of moving towards plant-base foods. I think you are completely wrong. People eat meat because they like the taste and the texture, but at the same time everyone knows that meat is produced by killing animals, and that it's much less sustainable than vegetarian food. If you want to get people to switch to meat alternatives, you have to keep everything that's great abo…

> People eat meat because they like the taste and the texture, but at the same time everyone knows that meat is produced by killing animals, and that it's much less sustainable than vegetarian food. I think this is too generous. Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but the implicit message here is that people actually care about the animals and sustainability of meat farming. My spouse is vegetarian and I'm whatever. I don't…

FWIW, I enjoy eating meats, and do not feel very concerned about the moral aspects. However, I still tried some Impossible foods just because of the novelty, and found that it would be a fine substitute in many cases.

Many people who drive electric cars now do so because they are “cool.” A large part of that is thanks to Tesla, making electric cars that are comparable and maybe even simply superior to gas cars, depending on how you look at it. The hype behind impossible foods may be largely unwarranted, as great plant-based foods are already available. However, the thing that is great about impossible foods and similar ventures is that it doesn’t ask you to compromise, and it’s cool and trendy. Someone may not care about the moral side of things and yet will probably still feel enticed to try it just to see, and if it’s good enough they could legitimately switch on a whim. This is not the same as asking someone who has eaten a diet involving one thing for decades and asking them to replace it with totally different things.

Many people have more strongly held convictions about having to change their diet in ways that impact their eating experience than they have convictions against the actual concept of plant-based diets. These meat alternatives could be very useful if a plant-based diet is to be the future (perhaps alongside lab grown meats?)

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#279

Post by imoverclocked »

redisman wrote: post #265
imoverclocked wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, to recap, feeding plant crops to animals is the current best way to produce plant based meat. Seems like the best way to feed our crops is also with animal products. I don’t really understand why we want to work so hard to drive a technological wedge into this process. Is it to get rid of other animals on the planet?

> Seems like the best way to feed our crops is also with animal products. You want to feed our crops with animal products? Like pour some ground meat in the cornfield?

That’s one product of animals... not the one I was referencing though. You might consider doing a search for “primary sources of fertilizer” before down voting me.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#280

Post by gherkinnn »

hamax wrote: post #218
zionic wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m with you on everything but the cultured meat. If it’s real cells grown in an environment with no antibiotics or hormones that’s a huge win over growing an entire animal that stands in its own crap all day and is pumped full of growth chemicals and antibiotics so it doesn’t die. I’d love to buy my own self contained steak 3D printer for $10k

You'd eat a 3D printed steak but not soy or wheat protein that you probably already eat multiple times a week?

If the 3d printed steak tastes anywhere near as good as one taken from a well-treated animal, yes.
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