Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How to lower the price of plant-based meat

us14.campaign-archive.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

251–260 of 679 posts

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#251

Post by bearbawl »

Falling3 wrote: post #193
bearbawl wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. I think we’re way too much and this is the part that is not sustainable. Unfortunately it’s apparently way more trendy to become vegan than to say we’re simply too much.

I became a vegan 15 years ago because I couldn't morally justify the unnecessary raising and killing other individuals. You may not agree, but writing that decision off as "trendy" is more than a bit condescending. Every study I've seen on the Earth's carrying capacity came to the conclusion that we could support at least a few more billion humans. So why you believe it's more correct to say we have a population prob…

I’m sorry for being condescending but I wasn’t referring to you in particular. It is indeed currently very trendy to be vegan.

I chose the other direction which is to eat very very good meat, but way way less, because that’s goddamn expensive and because we can’t produce it that much. Just like good wine.

The very big issue with meat is that you have a shit ton of farm raising some thousands animals in very precarious conditions for people eating garbage. That’s harsh, but that’s the sad truth.

The conclusion to this should not be to stop meat but to stop garbage. Just like everything in food by the way, you can eat 100% vegan 100% garbage 100% detrimental for the environment.

The issue with studies is that it’s basically impossible to just prove that we « could support at least a few more billion humans ». It’s just too big of a study. I’m actually pretty sure that with the way we live (independently of the question of meat) we should already be way less than we are. It’s quite obvious but I don’t have any « studies » at end, because it’s way easier for everywhere to just « prove » we can continue as we do (if we all become vegan of course, because that’s really the heart of our issue).

I’m not saying it’s a population problem and not a consumption problem. I think it’s both. And I think the vegan trend is absolutely part of the consumption problem because it’s hiding the source of the issue. You just have to look at how it’s so easier for people to tackle The source of the issue is that we should seek good instead of quantity or easiness.

We have replaced the supposedly old problem of meat by the new supposedly non-problem of food in a plastic bag with a vegan sticker on it.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#252

Post by rictic »

hunter-gatherer wrote: post #205
henrikschroder wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think it pushes away those who are on the cusp of moving towards plant-base foods. I think you are completely wrong. People eat meat because they like the taste and the texture, but at the same time everyone knows that meat is produced by killing animals, and that it's much less sustainable than vegetarian food. If you want to get people to switch to meat alternatives, you have to keep everything that's great abo…

> People eat meat because they like the taste and the texture, but at the same time everyone knows that meat is produced by killing animals, and that it's much less sustainable than vegetarian food. I think this is too generous. Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but the implicit message here is that people actually care about the animals and sustainability of meat farming. My spouse is vegetarian and I'm whatever. I don't…

One person's model:

People's tastes are largely driven by the foods they ate when they were young, which with notable exceptions, will prominently feature meat dishes. People on sites like this are likely to underestimate this effect, we are likely to be embedded in subcultures that are unusually high in openness to experience.

All else being equal, many people prefer doing the more ethical thing (or if you want to be cynical about it, the thing that makes them feel more ethical). Many people believe that plant based meat is more ethical.

Currently, all else isn't equal. Plant-based meat is more expensive to the consumer, and most find it to be less enjoyable to eat. Recent trends have been closing those gaps, producing more enjoyable plant-based meats at high but dropping prices.

As plant-based meat's quality/price ratio improves it will be increasingly common, and will displace a large amount of meat consumption that would be difficult to displace by other vegetarian dishes.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#253

Post by jayphen »

Grustaf wrote: post #227
henrikschroder wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think it pushes away those who are on the cusp of moving towards plant-base foods. I think you are completely wrong. People eat meat because they like the taste and the texture, but at the same time everyone knows that meat is produced by killing animals, and that it's much less sustainable than vegetarian food. If you want to get people to switch to meat alternatives, you have to keep everything that's great abo…

Well you could also just promote delicious vegetarian dishes. There are entire cultures that mostly eat vegetarian. Fake meat is such a silly concept.

Tofu and wheat gluten have been used for centuries as meat analogues in many cultures (especially those that mostly eat vegetarian). It’s not a silly concept at all, and opens up a world of delicious culinary options to those of us who don’t eat animal flesh.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#254

Post by azifali »

867-5309 wrote: post #215
WaitWaitWha wrote: post #143

A tangential topic - I really think that in general calling plant-based things "meat", a terrible idea. It does not promote plant-base diet or meat consumption reduction. It is trying to be what is not. I think it pushes away those who are on the cusp of moving towards plant-base foods. Why? Because the consumer is told it is "meat", so they will compare it to meat. They will compare these patties to a real, prime An…

not only this, but to turn plants into "meat" you end up with horrible processed vegetables with added oils, sugars and unnatural flavourings. most of which are then breadcrumbed in bleached flour and deep fried. by this point, the thing that might once have been a plant is now as bad as meat, if not worse, and resembles a dog turd in taste and health benefits

Completely agree. Why can't we all just eat regular, and not so highly processed vegetables if we want to make the switch to healthier diet..

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#255

Post by secondcoming »

hamax wrote: post #234
secondcoming wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Upvote this comment if you've ever encountered a native english speaker use the word 'meat' to be a synonym of 'solid food'. Option Base 1 I would like to see when Merriam Webster added this obscure definition, let alone have it listed first.

Sigh... This is THE original definition. Language later evolved and people started using the word meat to mostly mean animal flash. But that's just proof that language evolves over time and now it's evolving again to include broader range of food. But in any case, I'm sure you've heard of meat of a fruit or nut.

Yes I have, but it's normally obvious from the context that a fruit or nut is being referred to, usually by qualifing the workd with either 'fruit' or 'nut', or the person holding either.

If someone asked me to buy some meat and I returned with a few apples I'd receive a Merriam-Webster dictionary to the head!

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#256

Post by uhhhhhhhhhhhhhh »

thordenmark wrote: post #243

Ultimately these plant-based alternatives will be enhanced or replaced with insects, once people have been largely weaned off of meat. Most people won't notice or care. We aren't squeamish about blue food dye after all, we're just used to it.

Yeah give me the 80/20 ground chuck (80% insect-derived protein, 20% exoskeleton). Make sure the roaches were free-range, naturally sewer fed. I would like to see comfortable lives and painless deaths for all our slaughtered animals. But is killing insects more humane than chickens etc? Do we really beleive that if BigPoultryCo determined it could make a profit raising and killing insects it would do so in a manner somehow more in tune with our sentimentalities?

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#257

Post by jrochkind1 »

hannob wrote: post #30

Interestingly it doesn't even discuss the obvious solution: Let people who buy real meat pay for the externalities. (Interestingly even in places where there's some form of carbon pricing - like the EU - this often doesn't cover a large share of emissions from meat production, as methane emissions are very relevant here - I'm not aware of any methane pricing scheme anywhere.)

True, but I think it was focusing on things under the control of the producers of this product... of course, I suppose spending more on lobbying to try to reduce subsidies or tax externalities for meat is under their control. It seems like a kind of unwinnable battle though doesn't it?

The OP does touch on the subsidies by suggesting the producers rely more on soy and corn, which are heavily subsidized, and as are used as animal feed and thereby constitute a pretty major source of the meat subsidy. While not about externalities, I think they could have pointed out the reasons corn and soy are so cheap compared to other plant sources are in large part a result of government policy.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#258

Post by grumple »

It’s interesting that the prices for meat quoted in the article are far lower than what I see in my major American city, with meat typically going for triple the quoted prices. Vegan alternatives are quite attractive because there’s not much of a price difference here.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#259

Post by Grustaf »

jayphen wrote: post #253
Grustaf wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well you could also just promote delicious vegetarian dishes. There are entire cultures that mostly eat vegetarian. Fake meat is such a silly concept.

Tofu and wheat gluten have been used for centuries as meat analogues in many cultures (especially those that mostly eat vegetarian). It’s not a silly concept at all, and opens up a world of delicious culinary options to those of us who don’t eat animal flesh.

Tofu is nothing like meat in neither taste nor texture, and I’m pretty sure it has never been seen as a meat substitute traditionally.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#260

Post by tjr225 »

Grustaf wrote: post #233
867-5309 wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

not only this, but to turn plants into "meat" you end up with horrible processed vegetables with added oils, sugars and unnatural flavourings. most of which are then breadcrumbed in bleached flour and deep fried. by this point, the thing that might once have been a plant is now as bad as meat, if not worse, and resembles a dog turd in taste and health benefits

Yeah I agree. There’s delicious vegetarian dishes, with low processed ingredients. Why bother with ultra processed fake meat?

Its pretty intuitive, actually: people like burgers- even vegetarians or those trying to reduce their meat consumption.
Post reply on HN