141–150 of 181 posts
Damn, that's, um, a lot. And here I am, with a degree in CS and over 2 years of experience, earning less than one-third of it in my third world country.
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> It's hard to improve the situation without people screaming about how you're CODDLING MURDERERS! Who? Twitter idiots? If you're going to take the weakest of strawman arguments for the opposing side, you're not going to get very far in your thinking. There are plenty of ideas that aren't politically risky that don't get implemented, that would positively affect criminals and non-criminals alike - what's your explana…
It's more like no politician wants to be seen as "soft on crime," and this carries over to "soft on criminals." Doing anything to help people in prison once they get out is politically risky in a lot of places. Just look at the number of states where it's still legal to ask if someone has a criminal record on a job application. This not wanting to be "soft on crime" is particularly pathological in jurisdictions where…
This seems like a neat idea, but wouldn't it be more pragmatic to teach them skills they can use more universally to get jobs for which maybe there's much more cultural inclination? Like carpentry, electrician, construction, plumbing? Maybe it's prejudiced, but all the people I know that 'got in trouble' eventually made their way to construction crews. It worked well. White Collar jobs come along with a ton of other…
Yes, there should be more of an emphasis on the skilled trades but I don’t think it’s an either/or. I think most of the objections to one approach over the other are answered by having a range of options for inmates based on interest and aptitude. Tech would just be one option. There is enormous human potential for good going to waste in our prisons. There is no silver bullet, including efforts like this, but every ex-con given a real chance is a victory.
This seems like a neat idea, but wouldn't it be more pragmatic to teach them skills they can use more universally to get jobs for which maybe there's much more cultural inclination? Like carpentry, electrician, construction, plumbing? Maybe it's prejudiced, but all the people I know that 'got in trouble' eventually made their way to construction crews. It worked well. White Collar jobs come along with a ton of other…
> Like carpentry, electrician, construction, plumbing? This may not be a popular opinion on HN, but it is much harder to learn how to be a passible electrician or plumber than it is to learn how to be a passible programer. I worked plenty of construction jobs when I was younger. Electricians and plumbers are blue-collar jobs, but they tend to be pretty smart people.
Perhaps another unpopular opinion, but you don’t even have to be a good programmer to make what most people would consider decent money. Is this the same for any trades?
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> Like carpentry, electrician, construction, plumbing? This may not be a popular opinion on HN, but it is much harder to learn how to be a passible electrician or plumber than it is to learn how to be a passible programer. I worked plenty of construction jobs when I was younger. Electricians and plumbers are blue-collar jobs, but they tend to be pretty smart people.
> This may not be a popular opinion on HN, but it is much harder to learn how to be a passible electrician or plumber than it is to learn how to be a passible programer. Perhaps another unpopular opinion, but you don’t even have to be a good programmer to make what most people would consider decent money. Is this the same for any trades?
However, an unskilled or sloppy electrician will have a pretty low life expectancy.
Edit:
Sorry. That might have seemed snarky.
Most of these jobs have pretty strict licensing and certification requirements. An improperly wired or plumbed house is pretty dangerous, so a lot of effort is put into making sure that does not happen. I think the unskilled electricians would be filtered out earlier in their training.
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My grandfather and my high school science teacher both taught in youth "detention centres" for periods in their career. They both said students there were better behaved than regular schools. For the "inmates" (for lack of better term), school was a privilege and if they misbehaved, they couldn't attend. School was a good break from your cell/room.
Kind of funny that kids (and adults) often have a mentality that school is/was a prison, something they were sent to against their will. When people are in prison and school becomes something that can be taken away, it looks more like a privilege. Human brains are weird.
Good the last mile, I hope these prisoners find some solace in these opportunities and can channel their time and energy into a skill like this. I'm not sure how many tech firms will take ex-cons, but maybe this changes things as so many tech firms will turn a blind eye to drug related matters now.
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You are building the strawman of strawmen here. I never gave a reason that prisoners should be treated worse, as that implies I am arguing for an increase in punishment compared to the situation today. Which I nowhere did. Perhaps to nuance the discussion a bit, the majority of people in state prisons in the US are there for violent offenses, and state prisons hold a majority of all prisoners. https://www.prisonpolic…
There's a program helping people prepare for getting jobs after release - you said "Should the assaulted be happy with the fact that the inmate will get a job?" it seems at least some part of you is arguing maybe this program should be done away with. I mean maybe this is not what you are arguing, but it is sort of reasonable that a lot of people seem to be taking that as what you are arguing based on what you wrote.
I said that punishment is a necessary part of prison, it is the main thing of justice. You may or may not agree with that position, but unless you are willing to reply to me on a good faith basis maybe you just shouldn't. The HN guidelines say >Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith.
It is not sort of reasonable that you think "some part of me"(what do you mean by that?) argues for it, because I never wrote it. If you or other people did not understand some part of my original comment, ask for a clarification instead of what has happened in these comment chains.
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You were complaining that inmates would deign to find work after being incarcerated. > Should the assaulted be happy with the fact that the inmate will get a job? YES, everyone should be happy if ex-felons are able to find work after leaving prison. Otherwise, they just go back their previous behaviors (eg ~80% recidivism). If they can't get work, that's effectively a "life sentence".
I was not complaining about anything. They aren't ex-felons, after they are released, they are felons. I do not think you understood my original comment, since you keep quoting that sentence only. Where is the restitution to the aggrieved party? The assaulted, the robbed, the beaten, the raped? You pay for what you do, and if your enterprise is criminal, you pay in time behind bars. Personal responsibility. Why would…
1) Most DV cases are false allegations. In the West, no proof is required for a female to file a complaint against a man she knows.
In some areas, almost all criminal court cases now involve false DV allegations. There's various reasons for that, but when you have a child custody battle, everybody tells the wife to just fill something in the complaint form. There's no penalty for the wife regardless of the trial outcome.
2) Serving your sentence should be enough, esp. given #1.
> There are millions of upstanding citizens out of work
If you're a man, you're only one phone call away from a false allege. Something to think about if you're in a relationship. Or hiring.
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> A lot (and I mean 90%+) of H1Bs How can you say that with such confidence? Maybe the issue is your workplace is using staffing agency, primarily?
Because I have been around a long time and know lots of other people in the software world who have had similar experiences.