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Program teaches prisoners coding so they can land tech jobs once released

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Re: Program teaches prisoners coding so they can land tech jobs once released

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really hard for an audience on HN to truly appreciate the situations incarcerated people find themselves in. I think it's fine to "teach prisoners coding" as along as the people involved are aware that to even get to that point, how much BASIC education has to be re-done or done for the first time. Moreover, things like resumes, job hunting, and relating to people in a work environment is something that these fo…

It's hard to improve the situation without people screaming about how you're CODDLING MURDERERS ! Especially when it involves spending taxpayer money, even if it saves enormous sums in the long run due to reduced recidivism. Many voters are unhappy with anything less than recreating Dante's Inferno, so it is politically risky to implement these reforms that have been so successful in other countries.

> It's hard to improve the situation without people screaming about how you're CODDLING MURDERERS!

Who? Twitter idiots?

If you're going to take the weakest of strawman arguments for the opposing side, you're not going to get very far in your thinking.

There are plenty of ideas that aren't politically risky that don't get implemented, that would positively affect criminals and non-criminals alike - what's your explanation of such phenomena?

Blaming voters for the deeds of politicians has got to be one of the weakest strawmans I've heard in a while. It is the job of the politicians, domain experts and the media to present viable options for the populace to choose from. If the option chosen is shit, it isn't the person working 9-5 and raising a family that was asked to choose who is at fault, I hope that much is obvious.

Re: Program teaches prisoners coding so they can land tech jobs once released

#102
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea of prisons should be to simply keep people away from society so they cannot harm others. There's no need to heap punishment on top of that. That's medieval and doesn't belong in modern civilization.

It's part of modern civilization for the same reason people enjoy it when the bad guy gets punished at the end of a movie. This is the essence of justice, whether you have the stomach to face it or not.

I enjoy watching movies as much as anyone, but that doesn't transfer into enjoying people being hurt/punished in real life. I'm happy to leave my darker impulses behind when exiting the theater.

Re: Program teaches prisoners coding so they can land tech jobs once released

#103
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's part of modern civilization for the same reason people enjoy it when the bad guy gets punished at the end of a movie. This is the essence of justice, whether you have the stomach to face it or not.

I enjoy watching movies as much as anyone, but that doesn't transfer into enjoying people being hurt/punished in real life. I'm happy to leave my darker impulses behind when exiting the theater.

Those impulses are the reason we care to investigate crimes, capture criminals, put them on trial, and then punish them.

So I wouldn't call them dark.

Re: Program teaches prisoners coding so they can land tech jobs once released

#104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Entry level tech jobs are remarkably scarce and difficult to obtain/maintain. Entry level jobs are available everywhere - contributing to open source programs. Of course, nobody is going to immediately write you a check for that. But once you build a track record of competent contributions, people will be willing to pay you for more, and may even hire you. I'm proud that many contributors to the D language have lev…

and how many is that? > But once you build a track record of competent contributions how hard is this? especially for the population who is in need of actual employment. I am a cs student and has worked professionally but even then making any meaningful contribution to any decent language is beyond what I can afford (time/energy/financial-wise). More often than not, there is a lack of documentation (yes, I know this…

> how many is that?

Dunno, I never kept track. But I also know that a big motivator for D Conference sponsors is recruiting, and a big reason people attend is to get recruited. It's a win all around.

> how hard is this?

It's as hard as you can handle. Of course, competently doing the harder things gets you more leet cred.

> beyond what I can afford (time/energy/financial-wise).

If you're out of work, you have the time, and it costs nothing to contribute.

> very strict requirements for any pull requests

That's right. We're only interested in quality professional work, as any business would. Sub-par work just causes the rest of us problems.

Re: Program teaches prisoners coding so they can land tech jobs once released

#105

> The Last Mile’s program is defying the country’s 83 percent recidivism rate. In its 10 years existence, there has been zero recidivism amongst it’s nearly 100 graduates, graduates that include Jason Jones. Those numbers tell you everything you need to know. They're not "solving mass incarceration" any time soon.

>the country’s 83 percent recidivism rate Holy shizz, that's a lot. It's as if US laws and prisons aren't there to rehabilitate an individual but to turn him against society for good, making him a returning "customer" so that certain interest groups can keep profiting. But that's just probably my imagination running wild.

[deleted]

Re: Program teaches prisoners coding so they can land tech jobs once released

#106
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Monday's segment of Marketplace is worth listening to. The gist of it was that in many (all?) places in the US, a landlord can be sued if they rent to someone who has a criminal record who then went on commit another crime. As a result, few landlords will rent to them. I hang out on real estate forums and have never met anyone who would rent to someone with a criminal record. Getting a job is a whole other problem. T…

That's pretty bonkers since in most European countries, your crime record is only relevant for certain jobs where money or sensitive data is at stake and nothing else. How does society expect ex-cons to become functioning members again if they're denied housing and employment?

It's unfortunately a self-feeding circle... in the US, if you see a felon, it's likely they will go on to commit more felonies, so you won't want to hire them.

But if you don't hire them, they may be forced to commit other felonies... tragedy of the commons I suppose, just like shopping at Walmart is bad for the community but good for the individual.

It's hard to overcome these effects without legislation, but noone (sane) wants to be in the community that starts it.

Re: Program teaches prisoners coding so they can land tech jobs once released

#107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard to improve the situation without people screaming about how you're CODDLING MURDERERS ! Especially when it involves spending taxpayer money, even if it saves enormous sums in the long run due to reduced recidivism. Many voters are unhappy with anything less than recreating Dante's Inferno, so it is politically risky to implement these reforms that have been so successful in other countries.

> It's hard to improve the situation without people screaming about how you're CODDLING MURDERERS! Who? Twitter idiots? If you're going to take the weakest of strawman arguments for the opposing side, you're not going to get very far in your thinking. There are plenty of ideas that aren't politically risky that don't get implemented, that would positively affect criminals and non-criminals alike - what's your explana…

It's more like no politician wants to be seen as "soft on crime," and this carries over to "soft on criminals." Doing anything to help people in prison once they get out is politically risky in a lot of places. Just look at the number of states where it's still legal to ask if someone has a criminal record on a job application. This not wanting to be "soft on crime" is particularly pathological in jurisdictions where judges are elected.

Re: Program teaches prisoners coding so they can land tech jobs once released

#108
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nowhere did I make that claim.

By stating your hypothetical "Should the assaulted be happy with the fact that the inmate will get a job?" you made a condition only sometimes encountered - violent crime - a reason to treat all criminals worse. I assumed that you did not actually believe that all criminals in America had assaulted someone, but if you did not believe it then arguing for the punishment of people who did not commit violent acts (by mak…

You are building the strawman of strawmen here. I never gave a reason that prisoners should be treated worse, as that implies I am arguing for an increase in punishment compared to the situation today. Which I nowhere did.

Perhaps to nuance the discussion a bit, the majority of people in state prisons in the US are there for violent offenses, and state prisons hold a majority of all prisoners. https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/pie2020.html

Re: Program teaches prisoners coding so they can land tech jobs once released

#110
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that retribution, which is of course the principal component of justice, is a key part of prisons. Somewhere the scales must be balanced, and if not in prisons, where then? Should the assaulted be happy with the fact that the inmate will get a job? That is not to say that prisons should be blind to the fact that inmates will eventually be released. There are plenty of people who have committed no crime, but g…

> There are plenty of people who have committed no crime, but go hungry. Where is their free lunch? Yes, nobody should go hungry. Not in prison, not out of prison, nowhere.

Okay, thats nice. Do you think anyone here on HN is in favour of people going hungry?

And by a free lunch, I meant the idiomatic expression.

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