Program teaches prisoners coding so they can land tech jobs once released • Hacker News Board

Re: Program teaches prisoners coding so they can land tech jobs once released

#131

Post by timoth3y » Sat, Feb 06, 2021, 4:16 AM UTC

jariel wrote: post #48

This seems like a neat idea, but wouldn't it be more pragmatic to teach them skills they can use more universally to get jobs for which maybe there's much more cultural inclination? Like carpentry, electrician, construction, plumbing? Maybe it's prejudiced, but all the people I know that 'got in trouble' eventually made their way to construction crews. It worked well. White Collar jobs come along with a ton of other…

> Like carpentry, electrician, construction, plumbing?

This may not be a popular opinion on HN, but it is much harder to learn how to be a passible electrician or plumber than it is to learn how to be a passible programer.

I worked plenty of construction jobs when I was younger. Electricians and plumbers are blue-collar jobs, but they tend to be pretty smart people.

Re: Program teaches prisoners coding so they can land tech jobs once released

#132

Post by chrismcb » Sat, Feb 06, 2021, 4:36 AM UTC

Can we please stop discriminating ex-cons? Stop asking them this on job applications and hosting contacts

Re: Program teaches prisoners coding so they can land tech jobs once released

#133

Post by rendall » Sat, Feb 06, 2021, 4:44 AM UTC

sokoloff wrote: post #117

rendall wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN is marvelous, in that even the slightest hyperbole will be pointed out as incorrect. By "marvelous" of course I mean tedious

I don’t think your prior post falls into category of “even the slightest hyperbole”.

Marvelous

Re: Program teaches prisoners coding so they can land tech jobs once released

#134

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Feb 06, 2021, 4:46 AM UTC

underseacables wrote: post #6

In 2011-2014 I taught English and mathematics as a volunteer in a prison, and unless you’ve been there, nothing can prepare you for how truly awful America’s prison system is. The federal system is a little better, but when you get down to state prisons it gets exponentially worse. In my humble opinion, we have a vengeance and retribution mentality towards prisons in this country, when we should have a rehabilitation…

[deleted]

Re: Program teaches prisoners coding so they can land tech jobs once released

#135

Post by sparrc » Sat, Feb 06, 2021, 5:00 AM UTC

shiftpgdn wrote: post #71

ppeetteerr wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't have to be fraudulent. It's easier to fill with an H1B candidate with experience than with a fresh engineer with a recent degree.

A lot (and I mean 90%+) of H1Bs are outright lying about their experience in the tech field. At least from my short time doing hiring for a position in Texas. I eventually went to our management and got them to stop listening to recruiting body shops and hire someone local.

That hasn't been my experience at all.

Re: Program teaches prisoners coding so they can land tech jobs once released

#136

Post by InfiniteRand » Sat, Feb 06, 2021, 5:15 AM UTC

ndiscussion wrote: post #91

barrkel wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think retribution is the principal component of justice? That seems very wrong to me. Justice is a deep concept - https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/justice/ is an overview, and it's not short - but on plain sight, I'd say that since it is the public, through the medium of government, that enforces justice, it should do so with a utilitarian view. Society has a vital interest in reintegrating people wh…

> Society has a vital interest in reintegrating people who have been punished Food for thought, but this is only true if we release them. For most of history, we simply executed criminals. In most of the world, that's still the case (thieves without hands etc). Without making a moral judgment on what's right or wrong, if most societies evolved that way, it probably means it's conducive to the long-term health and sur…

I think this actually varies a lot across cultures, although one common principle, historically at least, is that justice is less deadly for the rich than it is for the poor. For instance, the concept of blood money reduces the punishment of murder to a fine

Re: Program teaches prisoners coding so they can land tech jobs once released

#137

Post by smabie » Sat, Feb 06, 2021, 5:36 AM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #102

slibhb wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's part of modern civilization for the same reason people enjoy it when the bad guy gets punished at the end of a movie. This is the essence of justice, whether you have the stomach to face it or not.

I enjoy watching movies as much as anyone, but that doesn't transfer into enjoying people being hurt/punished in real life. I'm happy to leave my darker impulses behind when exiting the theater.

You can't leave them behind and I'm sure you've wanted someone punished for some misdeeds they've committed. This isn't a bad thing and is an overwhelmingly natural response.

Re: Program teaches prisoners coding so they can land tech jobs once released

#138

Post by smabie » Sat, Feb 06, 2021, 5:45 AM UTC

chrismcb wrote: post #132

Can we please stop discriminating ex-cons? Stop asking them this on job applications and hosting contacts

Then people just discriminate on the basis or race/appearances. I don't think there's any getting around the fact that employers want to know this information and will try and infer it if they don't have it.

Re: Program teaches prisoners coding so they can land tech jobs once released

#139

Post by shiftpgdn » Sat, Feb 06, 2021, 6:18 AM UTC

kyawzazaw wrote: post #100

shiftpgdn wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot (and I mean 90%+) of H1Bs are outright lying about their experience in the tech field. At least from my short time doing hiring for a position in Texas. I eventually went to our management and got them to stop listening to recruiting body shops and hire someone local.

> A lot (and I mean 90%+) of H1Bs How can you say that with such confidence? Maybe the issue is your workplace is using staffing agency, primarily?

Because I have been around a long time and know lots of other people in the software world who have had similar experiences.

Re: Program teaches prisoners coding so they can land tech jobs once released

#140

Post by bryanrasmussen » Sat, Feb 06, 2021, 6:41 AM UTC

lldbg wrote: post #108

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By stating your hypothetical "Should the assaulted be happy with the fact that the inmate will get a job?" you made a condition only sometimes encountered - violent crime - a reason to treat all criminals worse. I assumed that you did not actually believe that all criminals in America had assaulted someone, but if you did not believe it then arguing for the punishment of people who did not commit violent acts (by mak…

You are building the strawman of strawmen here. I never gave a reason that prisoners should be treated worse, as that implies I am arguing for an increase in punishment compared to the situation today. Which I nowhere did. Perhaps to nuance the discussion a bit, the majority of people in state prisons in the US are there for violent offenses, and state prisons hold a majority of all prisoners. https://www.prisonpolic…

There's a program helping people prepare for getting jobs after release - you said "Should the assaulted be happy with the fact that the inmate will get a job?" it seems at least some part of you is arguing maybe this program should be done away with. I mean maybe this is not what you are arguing, but it is sort of reasonable that a lot of people seem to be taking that as what you are arguing based on what you wrote.