Mt. Gox demise as told by a Bitcoin insider • Hacker News Board

Re: Mt. Gox demise as told by a Bitcoin insider

#61

Post by cecida » Sat, Feb 06, 2021, 2:39 AM UTC

nyolfen wrote: post #43

cecida wrote: post #6

The problem with trying to suggest that Bitcoin is a fundamentally flawed idea is that you will be down voted to oblivion. As a computer science concept it's rather mundane. We know what merkle trees are. It's an extremely wasteful form of computing. Mining is an exercise in wastefulness. Proof-of-work is one of the worst concepts I've ever seen. Ah, Tether.

> As a computer science concept it's rather mundane. We know what merkle trees are. a practical, robust solution to a long-standing computer science problem (byzantine generals) that directly results in an entire new branch of computer science and economic sector is hardly mundane. bitcoin solves previously intractable trustless coordination problems. we are only at the early stages of discovering what it makes possi…

This is spaghetti language. What problem does Bitcoin solve? Economic inflation, deflation, hard money, computer science theoreticals.

I'm talking about all proofs btw. So I'd have the same questions about ethereum. This is very flawed computer science.

Re: Mt. Gox demise as told by a Bitcoin insider

#62

Post by wmf » Sat, Feb 06, 2021, 2:40 AM UTC

Lambdanaut wrote: post #52

wmf wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you prefer 100% of what it was worth then or 23% of what it's worth now?

Why 23%? Seems arbitrary. Is that the amount in BTC that is expected to be paid out to creditors?

Yes.

Re: Mt. Gox demise as told by a Bitcoin insider

#63

Post by perennate » Sat, Feb 06, 2021, 2:44 AM UTC

CoinLab's lawsuit is a big part of the reason why creditors with actual legitimate claims still haven't received their share of the remaining assets. Somehow CoinLab thinks their claim, which hinges on vague and unrealistic what-ifs, should have priority over Mt. Gox users who held dollar/cryptocurrency assets in their Mt. Gox accounts. Obviously CoinLab's ridiculous claims will eventually be thrown out, but it has severely delayed the insolvency proceedings and eventual distribution process.

Vessenes is not a "Bitcoin insider", he is a snake who seeks to steal billions from individual users who lost assets that they had held with Mt. Gox.

Here is what former Mt. Gox users who are still waiting for the distribution process think of this Bloomberg article: https://old.reddit.com/r/mtgoxinsolvency/comments/l9m3iz/coi...

Re: Mt. Gox demise as told by a Bitcoin insider

#64

Post by Qub3d » Sat, Feb 06, 2021, 2:47 AM UTC

koolba wrote: post #47

MagicalTux wrote: post #35

Being directly involved in this I'm not going to comment as of the veracity of the article myself, but rather point to a response of when this was posted on twitter (look at the extra responses for some fact checking): https://twitter.com/wizsecurity/status/1355973512012292096

The default twitter algo selection of comments is random gibberish. Anything more specific to point to?

Here's the thread unrolled: https://threader.app/conversation/1355926433646972933/UcAWDz...

Re: Mt. Gox demise as told by a Bitcoin insider

#65

Post by staticautomatic » Sat, Feb 06, 2021, 2:49 AM UTC

slavik81 wrote: post #33

wmf wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, Vessenes is so far inside that he has a massive conflict of interest in this case. He's also acted in pretty bad faith. Here's the story from a knowledgeable outsider: https://blog.wizsec.jp/2019/04/coinlab-v-mtgox-imaginarium-o... Even putting aside the Mt. Gox bankruptcy, the original contract with CoinLab looks pretty bad: https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.wawd.192566... They agreed on damages…

> IANAL but this seems like a dumb suicide pact. IANAL either, but those sound like punitive damages, which are unenforceable. The court could accept the assessment in the contract, but if it's blatantly unreasonable, they are supposed to pick a value that more accurately matches the damage incurred due to the breach. Not that I would want to be in a situation where you have to depend on that...

They’re called liquidated damages and they’re typically only enforceable when they are reasonably close to the actual monetary harm that would be caused by a breach of a contract.

Re: Mt. Gox demise as told by a Bitcoin insider

#66

Post by perennate » Sat, Feb 06, 2021, 2:52 AM UTC

wmf wrote: post #12

otoburb wrote: post #5

>> “It could’ve been a trillion-dollar company,” Vessenes said. “It’s so sad.” The current $16 billion CoinLab claim against Mt. Gox is based on what the company thinks their portion of Mt. Gox would be worth if it had been managed well, he said. Quoting this part of the article to emphasize the absurdity of CoinLab's assertion. >> Peter Vessenes has spent years trying to recoup lost coins This article byline is stra…

If the US part of Mt. Gox was managed well it would today be... Coinbase? Which is soon to be worth $63B.

The absurd hypothetical that CoinLab could have been Coinbase in some strange parallel universe should not take priority in the bankruptcy/insolvency proceedings over the claims of Mt. Gox users who held actual dollar/cryptocurrency assets on the exchange.

CoinLab's lawsuit has delayed the distribution process and their absurd claims are part of the reason why creditors with actual legitimate claims (i.e. Mt. Gox users) are still waiting for the remaining assets to be distributed.

It is like the bank has robbery and 20% of the money is stolen, but instead of distributing the 80% among the customers, it is given to the bank's US partner that said "oh hey we could've been the next big bank in the US if the other bank didn't get robbed".

Re: Mt. Gox demise as told by a Bitcoin insider

#67

Post by contingencies » Sat, Feb 06, 2021, 2:58 AM UTC

MagicalTux wrote: post #35

Being directly involved in this I'm not going to comment as of the veracity of the article myself, but rather point to a response of when this was posted on twitter (look at the extra responses for some fact checking): https://twitter.com/wizsecurity/status/1355973512012292096

When's the book coming out?

Re: Mt. Gox demise as told by a Bitcoin insider

#68

Post by perennate » Sat, Feb 06, 2021, 2:58 AM UTC

wmf wrote: post #50

llamataboot wrote: post #42

Still waiting for the 50 or so BTC I had in MtGox when it disappeared. Think I should get what they were worth then, or what they are worth now :D

Would you prefer 100% of what it was worth then or 23% of what it's worth now?

Of course everyone would want the greater of the two. But the claims need to be balanced because some users held cryptocurrency assets while others held dollar assets, and there aren't sufficient assets to return either one. The rehabilitation trustee has already come up with a plan that balances the demands of the various stakeholders, and most people are happy with it. There are many reasons why the assets haven't been distributed yet, but one big reason is because CoinLab keeps parroting their ridiculous claims; obviously CoinLab's lawsuit will be thrown out eventually (because their claims are absurd), but it's part of the reason the distribution keeps getting delayed and likely won't happen until, say, 2022-2023.

Only in January 2021 did CoinLab finally say, okay, we will agree that the distribution of 90% of the assets can start while our lawsuit continues (they are ridiculously demanding that CoinLab get some big portion of the other 10%, so they want that money held up until their absurd lawsuit is finally thrown out). See https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-15/coinlab-r...

Re: Mt. Gox demise as told by a Bitcoin insider

#69

Post by Clewza313 » Sat, Feb 06, 2021, 3:10 AM UTC

woodruffw wrote: post #28

trixie_ wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Case in point I guess. It is kind of amazing how one of the most important recent technological developments has been written off for more than a decade by the users of this site. Same with TypeScript for a long time as well, and then there was a magical turning point somehow that the entire zerg all of a sudden discovered static typing was actually useful. For one of the best sites for discussing the latest happenin…

> Crypto has value simply because it is better at storing value than the mediums that came before it. Is this a serious claim? The last one and a half months have seen extraordinary speculation in cryptocurrency markets, even by the standards of cryptocurrencies. Lots of wealth is being produced ; relatively little is being stored.

Lots of valuation is being produced, propped up by Tether printing. BTC in itself is an unproductive asset, it costs real money to keep it up and running (some $4M/USD in electricity etc).

Re: Mt. Gox demise as told by a Bitcoin insider

#70

Post by chejazi » Sat, Feb 06, 2021, 3:10 AM UTC

otoburb wrote: post #14

wmf wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the US part of Mt. Gox was managed well it would today be... Coinbase? Which is soon to be worth $63B.

Coinbase didn't need Mt. Gox to become what they are today. I'm not sure this line of reasoning holds much water. Perhaps if we were to follow Vessennes' absurd chain of reasoning to its logical conclusion, CoinLab itself should be countersued by Mt. Gox creditors for failing to become as successful as Coinbase given their head start in the US.

IIRC, Brian Armstrong (CEO coinbase) was at the top of the MtGox volume leaderboard, because he relied them for Coinbase's retail exchange.