Mt. Gox demise as told by a Bitcoin insider • Hacker News Board

Re: Mt. Gox demise as told by a Bitcoin insider

#31

Post by trixie_ » Sat, Feb 06, 2021, 1:26 AM UTC

TylerE wrote: post #21

trixie_ wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Case in point I guess. It is kind of amazing how one of the most important recent technological developments has been written off for more than a decade by the users of this site. Same with TypeScript for a long time as well, and then there was a magical turning point somehow that the entire zerg all of a sudden discovered static typing was actually useful. For one of the best sites for discussing the latest happenin…

There is nothing anyone could say that would convince you aren't on the OneTruePath(tm) is there?

I would love to have an intelligent debate with you. To respond to your original post. Many people, myself included, find crypto an easier, faster, cheaper way to send large amounts of money versus ACH, wire transfers and western union.

Re: Mt. Gox demise as told by a Bitcoin insider

#32

Post by Groxx » Sat, Feb 06, 2021, 1:32 AM UTC

There's also this entertaining presentation from an outside researcher (tracing down the missing money) from 3 years ago (I don't know what's up with the framerate, but really, it's worth watching): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l70iRcSxqzo It's quite a rollercoaster of failures.

Re: Mt. Gox demise as told by a Bitcoin insider

#33

Post by slavik81 » Sat, Feb 06, 2021, 1:34 AM UTC

wmf wrote: post #10

zhoujianfu wrote: post #2

FYI, this “Bitcoin Insider” (there should be no such thing in a decentralized currency?) apparently took $5M from mtgox, claiming he could get them through regulation in the U.S. (he did no such thing)... then sued them for $16B after they went bankrupt, holding the thousands of creditors hostage for years... so far. And apparently now fortress will give him (CoinLab) $11M to move (slightly) out of the way.

Yeah, Vessenes is so far inside that he has a massive conflict of interest in this case. He's also acted in pretty bad faith. Here's the story from a knowledgeable outsider: https://blog.wizsec.jp/2019/04/coinlab-v-mtgox-imaginarium-o... Even putting aside the Mt. Gox bankruptcy, the original contract with CoinLab looks pretty bad: https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.wawd.192566... They agreed on damages…

> IANAL but this seems like a dumb suicide pact.

IANAL either, but those sound like punitive damages, which are unenforceable. The court could accept the assessment in the contract, but if it's blatantly unreasonable, they are supposed to pick a value that more accurately matches the damage incurred due to the breach.

Not that I would want to be in a situation where you have to depend on that...

Re: Mt. Gox demise as told by a Bitcoin insider

#34

Post by trixie_ » Sat, Feb 06, 2021, 1:40 AM UTC

matkoniecz wrote: post #26

trixie_ wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Case in point I guess. It is kind of amazing how one of the most important recent technological developments has been written off for more than a decade by the users of this site. Same with TypeScript for a long time as well, and then there was a magical turning point somehow that the entire zerg all of a sudden discovered static typing was actually useful. For one of the best sites for discussing the latest happenin…

> beats other stores of value in almost every metric. Which metrics you selected so crypto beats following in "almost every metric"? - real estate - gold - $ in cash - $ in a bank account - stocks

Metrics as in how easy is it to store and send, how resistant is it to inflation and manipulation.

- Land - Can't send it.

- Gold - Physical so more difficult to store, secure, send, and verify.

- Cash - Easy to manipulate by the government. How many trillions printed for coronavirus? I wouldn't hold too much of it.

- Stocks - Cant send it. More shares can be created by the board of directors.

Crypto is made to do one thing - store value, and do it well.

Re: Mt. Gox demise as told by a Bitcoin insider

#35

Post by MagicalTux » Sat, Feb 06, 2021, 1:42 AM UTC

Being directly involved in this I'm not going to comment as of the veracity of the article myself, but rather point to a response of when this was posted on twitter (look at the extra responses for some fact checking):

https://twitter.com/wizsecurity/status/1355973512012292096

Re: Mt. Gox demise as told by a Bitcoin insider

#36

Post by trixie_ » Sat, Feb 06, 2021, 1:44 AM UTC

woodruffw wrote: post #28

trixie_ wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Case in point I guess. It is kind of amazing how one of the most important recent technological developments has been written off for more than a decade by the users of this site. Same with TypeScript for a long time as well, and then there was a magical turning point somehow that the entire zerg all of a sudden discovered static typing was actually useful. For one of the best sites for discussing the latest happenin…

> Crypto has value simply because it is better at storing value than the mediums that came before it. Is this a serious claim? The last one and a half months have seen extraordinary speculation in cryptocurrency markets, even by the standards of cryptocurrencies. Lots of wealth is being produced ; relatively little is being stored.

It's in the news everyday. Huge investment firms diversifying into crypto. So yes, value is being stored. The market cap of cypto has been rising exponentially - exactly because it is a good store of value. Which means easy to store, and highly resistant to manipulation and inflation.

Re: Mt. Gox demise as told by a Bitcoin insider

#37

Post by xtracto » Sat, Feb 06, 2021, 1:53 AM UTC

staplers wrote: post #11

It's always amazed me how anti-crypto and behind the times (about bitcoin) this forum has been. Remember your imagination for the possibilities of the early web and computers.

It may be a matter of demographics. Slashdot had the same effect with other new technology (ipod. Less space than a nomad). And Usenet or irc forums were full of people discounting myspace, FB, and other newer technologies.

Hacker news has changed a lot since the time I joined. I came from /. And osnews . And initially it was strongly pro business . Now it has became more "liberal " and pro open source.

Re: Mt. Gox demise as told by a Bitcoin insider

#38

Post by trixie_ » Sat, Feb 06, 2021, 2:00 AM UTC

School-Cotton wrote: post #29

trixie_ wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Case in point I guess. It is kind of amazing how one of the most important recent technological developments has been written off for more than a decade by the users of this site. Same with TypeScript for a long time as well, and then there was a magical turning point somehow that the entire zerg all of a sudden discovered static typing was actually useful. For one of the best sites for discussing the latest happenin…

Low volatility is a pretty important metric for stores of value. By that metric almost anything other than GME shares is better than cryptocurrency: cash in any hard currency, gold, silver, luxury watches, ...

I guess remind me in 10 years and we'll see how returns on crypto compares to 'stocks, hard currency, gold, silver, luxury watches'

Funny how all of those things are not supply constrained, so they seem to be at a disadvantage from the start. But we'll see.

Re: Mt. Gox demise as told by a Bitcoin insider

#39

Post by woodruffw » Sat, Feb 06, 2021, 2:01 AM UTC

trixie_ wrote: post #36

woodruffw wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Crypto has value simply because it is better at storing value than the mediums that came before it. Is this a serious claim? The last one and a half months have seen extraordinary speculation in cryptocurrency markets, even by the standards of cryptocurrencies. Lots of wealth is being produced ; relatively little is being stored.

It's in the news everyday. Huge investment firms diversifying into crypto. So yes, value is being stored. The market cap of cypto has been rising exponentially - exactly because it is a good store of value. Which means easy to store, and highly resistant to manipulation and inflation.

> Huge investment firms diversifying into crypto. So yes, value is being stored.

Something being a desirable investment vehicle usually makes it an undesirable store of value: a store of value should be stable and predictable, not subject to significant changes in any direction.

> Which means easy to store, and highly resistant to manipulation and inflation.

These are, again, negative qualities in a store of value. A good store of value is inflates and deflates exactly as much as required to retain its backing value. Inflation means loss of value; deflation represents a liquidity risk when exiting the asset.

More generally, this is an indictment of the cryptocurrency community's basic financial literacy. You can't just call a speculative instrument a "store of value" because every who bought into it in the past two months has seen a positive return; that's just not what it is.

Re: Mt. Gox demise as told by a Bitcoin insider

#40

Post by School-Cotton » Sat, Feb 06, 2021, 2:02 AM UTC

trixie_ wrote: post #38

School-Cotton wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Low volatility is a pretty important metric for stores of value. By that metric almost anything other than GME shares is better than cryptocurrency: cash in any hard currency, gold, silver, luxury watches, ...

I guess remind me in 10 years and we'll see how returns on crypto compares to 'stocks, hard currency, gold, silver, luxury watches' Funny how all of those things are not supply constrained, so they seem to be at a disadvantage from the start. But we'll see.

I didn’t mention “possibility of high returns” as a metric. I said “low volatility”.