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I'm tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit

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Re: I'm tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit

#381

Post by mynameisvlad »

DiabloD3 wrote: post #93
himinlomax wrote: post #15

Well I wish I could use it, but it simply does not let me run any Steam games at this point.

This is a common misconception, thank you for bringing it up. Wayland and modern post-KMS Xorg do not control your hardware, and have no real ability to do anything with 3D acceleration outside of what Mesa/DRI/DRM/KMS grant them the permission to do. Wayland and Xorg both call the same APIs provided by them, and call them effectively the same way. The side effect of this is fbcon can be ran on modern "all shader/no…

> this happens most often if you accidentally install an Nvidia GPU and use binary drivers

So, the vast majority of people wanting to play games? Let’s be real, Nvidia is currently the king of gaming GPUs. You can’t just handwave it away when talking about gaming on Linux.

Re: I'm tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit

#382

Post by b93rn »

DCKing wrote: post #163
londons_explore wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every 6 months I try switching to Wayland. I spend an hour or so using it for regular desktop gnome use and fixing minor bugs (ie. The kind I can fix with a config tweak). I then switch back again because it just isn't there yet. Recent issues: * The brightness control for my screen doesn't work with it. * The mouse sometimes lags * Graphical corruption in Chromium when on webgl sites. * Blank screen after resume fro…

I'm beating a dead horse at this point, but there's no such thing as "switching to Wayland". What most people mean when they "switch to Wayland" is that they're switching from Gnome on X11 to a "pure Gnome" stack that uses Wayland and a bunch of other Freedesktop standards for interopability. There is absolutely no code from the "Wayland project" running there, because the Wayland implementation is Gnome's own (it's…

Yeah Sway looks really appealing to me since i'm already using i3wm. But every now and then i'm searching if screen sharing on MS Teams already works. As a Software Engineer in this pandemic i rely a lot on screen sharing. But every time i search for it i find out that it still does not work (without a work around). That's basically the only thing that holds me back. Does anyone know if Sway or Wayland is trying to fix this? Seems like a high priority fix to me in this pandemic.

Re: I'm tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit

#383

Post by ohgodplsno »

unethical_ban wrote: post #316
zabzonk wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't understand how that gives you dictatorial power over 100s of users who don't like the changes you've made. It doesn't - you are completely free to roll back those changes, or make different changes of your own.

Hot take: Maybe, if you're building something (or especially changing something) as a SME that many people use, and you fuck it up in a way most people don't like, you're still a jerk. Maybe. I think the discussion should happen. Because I don't think "I wrote it, if you don't like it, you write it" is a 100% defense to hordes of upset users.

Hot take: As a software engineer, or absolutely anything else, don't owe these people anything. I'm building software in the direction that I want to bring it. If they're unhappy, they're free to leave. But to have them come on public forums and call you a jerk, that's just comical.

Re: I'm tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit

#384

Post by GrayShade »

rpiguyshy wrote: post #309

thats cool that its also on gemeni. why did ubuntu use wayland and then switch back to X? i think this is a great piece of evidence in the case for all these open source guys to stop wasting their effort on open source projects. the amount of utility that is got per unit time and effort is pathetic. its thankless, hard work that in this case will basically be rejected by the very people it was designed for. i think a…

> why did ubuntu use wayland and then switch back to X?

They're switching again to Wayland: [1]

[1]: https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/trying-wayland-by-default-aga...

Re: I'm tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit

#385

Post by talhah »

mkl95 wrote: post #22

I don't hate Wayland. But every time I use it random things stop working, so I'm sticking with x11 for the time being. I'm a firm believer in "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".

It depends what level of broken is okay with you. X11 by design allows any application to see what you type which I would consider broken and a security risk.

Re: I'm tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit

#386

Post by ekianjo »

> None of the Wayland detractors have a clue. They don’t understand Wayland, they don’t understand X11, they don’t understand Linux graphics or OpenGL or Vulkan or anything else in the stack.

So, end users are not supposed to complain because they don't know the full stack by heart? What kind of crappy piece of opinion is that?

Re: I'm tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit

#387

Post by mondoshawan »

kevincox wrote: post #121
Aardwolf wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because all three are similar, all three throw away some of the modular unix philosophy and replace it with a system that gives less power to the user.

Sorry which modular unix philosophy is Wayland replacing? X wasn't modular except by the most generous definitions. X is a weird server that does way too many things and the window manager where the interesting logic was. These days the building blocks have been broken out allowing much more flexibility. If you think that the window manager was modular component you can basically pretend that wlroots is X and the com…

Xorg didnt define policy, which is why things like window management was offloaded to the window manager process. Look and feel was also not part of the policy of Xorg, and was defined by the widget sets, window manager, etc.

In the wayland model, these previously modular components that communicated through process boundaries to cobble together those policies that make a desktop are typically subsumed into one process called the compositor. Look and feel is still the domain of the widget set, but window policy is not.

Re: I'm tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit

#388

Post by rbanffy »

thatguy0900 wrote: post #340
boudin wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reverse is also true. Don't blame people maintaining software for changing your routine. You make a lot of assumptions there but the reality is often much more nuanced. Everything changes, all the time, that's a rule that is true for absolutely everything in life.

Is that really true? I can get into basically any car and understand everything immediately because they are all mostly the same. If Linux could software update the insides of a Linux car it would be unrecognizable every year.

You can probably walk up to a Gnome, KDE, Windows, Mac or Chrome computer and use it after a couple seconds. I don't fully understand all the configuration options my car has - I set it to "comfort" and that's it and yet I can drive it.

I don't think I can tell you immediately whether my laptop is running under Wayland or X (I only can because Wayland and FontForge haven't been talking for some time). Does it annoy me? Yes. Does it annoy me to the point of anger? I'm an adult. I have other things going on in my life besides graphical back-ends.

Re: I'm tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit

#389

Post by 0027 »

This is a poor analogy. "Wayland sucks!" isn't a conspiracy theory, its an opinion. There is no basis in truth to the statement "Santa Claus is awesome."

Developing software is difficult and thankless, even if FOSS. I don't know what else to say other than this article feels like a waste of space.

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