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I'm tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit

drewdevault.com

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Re: I'm tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit

#241

Post by Miraste »

lewispollard wrote: post #151
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #28

> In the case of Wayland, the “vague authority” are a bunch of volunteers who have devoted tens of thousands of hours of their free time towards making free shit for you. That does not mean anyone is under an obligation to like it. > Maybe Wayland doesn’t work for your precious use-case. More likely, it does work, and you swallowed some propaganda based on an assumption which might have been correct 7 years ago. If y…

> I've been down this road a lot with FOSS software: "I don't use it because it doesn't do what I need", "sure it does!", "no, it really doesn't", "well you don't need that anyway!"... Just recently (I was on a Fedora box temporarily) I was trying to figure out how to get Nautilus to stop starting a search whenever I typed something, and instead highlight the nearest match in the current directory, y'know, like prett…

In my experience Gnome is the worst major FOSS project for this. Ever since Gnome 3 the design philosophy of all of their projects seems to be "find out what the users want and do the opposite."

Re: I'm tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit

#242

Post by zabzonk »

lewispollard wrote: post #151
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #28

> In the case of Wayland, the “vague authority” are a bunch of volunteers who have devoted tens of thousands of hours of their free time towards making free shit for you. That does not mean anyone is under an obligation to like it. > Maybe Wayland doesn’t work for your precious use-case. More likely, it does work, and you swallowed some propaganda based on an assumption which might have been correct 7 years ago. If y…

> I've been down this road a lot with FOSS software: "I don't use it because it doesn't do what I need", "sure it does!", "no, it really doesn't", "well you don't need that anyway!"... Just recently (I was on a Fedora box temporarily) I was trying to figure out how to get Nautilus to stop starting a search whenever I typed something, and instead highlight the nearest match in the current directory, y'know, like prett…

> I don't understand how that gives you dictatorial power over 100s of users who don't like the changes you've made.

It doesn't - you are completely free to roll back those changes, or make different changes of your own.

Re: I'm tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit

#244

Post by foldr »

barrkel wrote: post #226
foldr wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, I understand how amazing it is that this software is truly free and created by volunteers, no, I don't understand how that gives you dictatorial power over 100s of users who don't like the changes you've made. To be honest I don’t see how you can understand the first bit but not the second. Yes, they can make changes that you don’t like without consulting you.

They can; but they shouldn't expect a life free of complaints. Commercial software, like most things in life, is responsive to incentives. The people who buy things get the most say in the product. For open source where the end users aren't buying anything, and the developers are either creating product for their own gratification, or for some more nebulous corporate goal, the incentives are rather indirect. And that…

>but they shouldn't expect a life free of complaints.

This seems to be the dominant culture, but it's actually pretty toxic that people feel entitled to whine about software created by people who owe them absolutely nothing.

Constructive feedback is useful, and appropriate if the creator indicates that they want it.

Whining and ranting is a waste of energy. It makes people feel bad and leads to no beneficial change.

I don't think Drew DeVault wrote this because he's received lots of useful constructive feedback.

Re: I'm tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit

#245

Post by cheaprentalyeti »

DCKing wrote: post #163
londons_explore wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every 6 months I try switching to Wayland. I spend an hour or so using it for regular desktop gnome use and fixing minor bugs (ie. The kind I can fix with a config tweak). I then switch back again because it just isn't there yet. Recent issues: * The brightness control for my screen doesn't work with it. * The mouse sometimes lags * Graphical corruption in Chromium when on webgl sites. * Blank screen after resume fro…

I'm beating a dead horse at this point, but there's no such thing as "switching to Wayland". What most people mean when they "switch to Wayland" is that they're switching from Gnome on X11 to a "pure Gnome" stack that uses Wayland and a bunch of other Freedesktop standards for interopability. There is absolutely no code from the "Wayland project" running there, because the Wayland implementation is Gnome's own (it's…

You're dancing around the problem: Wayland works (such as it is) by offloading functionality that was part of X to the desktop software like gnome or kde and then saying "but that's not our problem!" when something breaks. Never mind that program collection 'A' (including X11) was working and program colleciton 'B' (the Wayland way) wasn't.

Re: I'm tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit

#246

Post by kevincox »

hanikesn wrote: post #138

I'd love to use Wayland, but having to use proprietary nvidia drivers for performance and working screen sharing via Firefox, Chrome, Zoom and Teamviewer force me to stay with X11 for some time. Though there's much progress on the Chrome Firefox front I fear it will take some time until proprietary apps will follow.

Screensharing works well these days with PipeWire. I use it from Firefox regularly.

But yes, proprietary divers are still slow to update.

Re: I'm tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit

#247

Post by welterde »

DCKing wrote: post #163
londons_explore wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every 6 months I try switching to Wayland. I spend an hour or so using it for regular desktop gnome use and fixing minor bugs (ie. The kind I can fix with a config tweak). I then switch back again because it just isn't there yet. Recent issues: * The brightness control for my screen doesn't work with it. * The mouse sometimes lags * Graphical corruption in Chromium when on webgl sites. * Blank screen after resume fro…

I'm beating a dead horse at this point, but there's no such thing as "switching to Wayland". What most people mean when they "switch to Wayland" is that they're switching from Gnome on X11 to a "pure Gnome" stack that uses Wayland and a bunch of other Freedesktop standards for interopability. There is absolutely no code from the "Wayland project" running there, because the Wayland implementation is Gnome's own (it's…

On the face of it that does sound even worse.. Instead of just having to fix those issues once you will now have to fix them in every desktop environment/window manager equivalent?

Re: I'm tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit

#248

Post by adkadskhj »

__s wrote: post #200
adkadskhj wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea i'm confused by this line. I'm a Linux-desktop-noob, but i was going to use i3-Wayland, aka Sway, and because i have an Nvidia i was told don't bother. Nvidia Drivers + Wayland sound broken? Now that may not be true.. but it seemed clear cut. I wanted to try Wayland really bad because i have a multi-DPI monitor setup, and Xorg is awful at that. Yet, it seemed too early. Nvidia isn't exactly some niche product. No…

It'll work with Nouveau. Nvidia refuses to implement an interface in their driver every other graphics driver implements Drew wrote a blog entirely devoted to the Nvidia issue: https://drewdevault.com/2017/10/26/Fuck-you-nvidia.html

Appreciate the info! I'll have to look into that. As someone who runs Computer Graphics software GPU perf is important to me. I'll be curious to look into how Nouveau behaves there

Re: I'm tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit

#250

Post by dtx1 »

I know the author is reading HN.

I use sway everyday and i freaking love it. Mixing monitors with different resolutions AND different refresh rates all running at their native speeds with no tearing, all while keeping my nice i3 Shortcuts? FREAKING AWESOME!

Does EVERYTHING work? Nope, somethings are broken, some require config changes or workarounds. I have an XFCE desktop installed as a backup for work when i know i need to do a lot of Zoom conferences but for my private stuff i can just avoid non-wayland software and for most things IT.JUST.WORKS. and it's superbly fast and comfy AF to use.

Complain away how wayland doesn't do everything xorg does. Stick to your abandonware for legacy reasons. That's fine. That's your freedom.

I just like the Window Manager :)

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