Drug decriminalization in Oregon begins today • Hacker News Board

Re: Drug decriminalization in Oregon begins today

#101

Post by rootusrootus » Mon, Feb 01, 2021, 7:51 PM UTC

Noos wrote: post #88

anewaccount2021 wrote: post #58

The not-homeless, not-drug-addict rest-of-society is already well on its way with its response...gated communities. No homeless, no open drug use...all protected by private property laws and private security. Get ready for more of them. It doesn't matter what laws you will pass, you don't get past the front gate unless your card scans. In the end, the only people who will be forced to look at open drug use and homele…

To be honest, can you blame them? The petty crimes fueled by drug use don't go away if you decriminalize it. We keep throwing money at homelessness but it doesn't seem to work at all because a lot of the problem homeless really need to be involuntarily committed for long term treatment of mental illness or addiction. Not many people want to go down that route, because we still don't really trust or are comfortable wi…

Decriminalizing possession doesn't make burglary legal.

Re: Drug decriminalization in Oregon begins today

#102

Post by QuercusMax » Mon, Feb 01, 2021, 7:51 PM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #83

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Start with dinner at 6 and go to bed at 9 and that's 2/hr. Not exactly keg stands and jungle juice territory. The human body processes 1-2 drinks/hr so at the end you'll have a buzz on the order of one stiff mixed drink (~3-4 shots of stuff in the 40% ballpark spread out over a tall glass of sugary fruity stuff). Edit: And since apparently this needs saying "drink" = "the standard alcohol/drink unit that all the prof…

“1-2 drinks/hr” is not a well defined metric. It’s better to use units of alcohol: https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/alcohol-support/calculating-alc... And more than 1 5% beer is outside of almost all people’s ability to “process” in an hour. I would wager the majority of people based on size/weight can’t process a single 5% beer in an hour.

When people are drinking 6-packs, it's much more likely to be Coors Light (4.2%) than something like an Arrogant Bastard.

According to 5 seconds of googling, the typical weight of an American man in 2016 was 197lbs.

You might well lose your wager.

Re: Drug decriminalization in Oregon begins today

#103

Post by potsandpans » Mon, Feb 01, 2021, 7:51 PM UTC

throwaway2121bx wrote: post #68

I'm a proponent for legalizing drugs. But I believe there will be negative long-term consequences from drug use becoming normalized and so easy to obtain. People who wouldn't otherwise use drugs could be forgiven (after reading about legalization in the binary and positive way it is often reported, or from walking around a city with an upmarket weed shop every few blocks) for believing it can't be that bad for you an…

hard to imagine a take more braindead

Re: Drug decriminalization in Oregon begins today

#104

Post by worik » Mon, Feb 01, 2021, 7:52 PM UTC

tastyfreeze wrote: post #84

worik wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" it costs less to help people that abuse drugs " Even less if you leave the people who use drugs alone in their pleasures!

It would probably be helpful to define abuse of drugs as not being able to function in society as a result of use. The clinical definition of using more than the prescribed dose isn't very helpful. Depending on the drug a higher dose can be desirable for different reasons. If somebody wants to check out of society I don't want to stop them. That is their choice. But if they are trying to participate in society and st…

"If somebody wants to check out of society I don't want to stop them"

In my world that is not what drug users are doing.

Re: Drug decriminalization in Oregon begins today

#105

Post by rootusrootus » Mon, Feb 01, 2021, 7:52 PM UTC

zappo2938 wrote: post #38

Meanwhile drug users who often don't want to stop will now move to Oregon.

Be aware that we don't have any idea how to deal with homelessness, however. And there are plenty of other ways law enforcement can ruin your day.

Re: Drug decriminalization in Oregon begins today

#106

Post by ogre_codes » Mon, Feb 01, 2021, 7:53 PM UTC

ttul wrote: post #97

cylon13 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should we force drug trafficking in to the underground, creating a black market and all the murder that comes with enforcing contracts within it, when people are just going to buy and consume drugs anyway? Because drugs are bad for you? The trade-off doesn't seem worth it.

"Bath salts" are popular because far better alternatives are illegal... If pure meth, cocaine, heroin, MDMA, and other "hard" drugs were made available in a regulated format, many destructive and dangerous alternatives would no longer have a market.

This is the big concern about making (any) drugs illegal. There is zero way for a user to ensure safe supply or with consistent dosages. This puts an additional burden on our healthcare system.

Re: Drug decriminalization in Oregon begins today

#107

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Feb 01, 2021, 7:53 PM UTC

throwaway2121bx wrote: post #68

I'm a proponent for legalizing drugs. But I believe there will be negative long-term consequences from drug use becoming normalized and so easy to obtain. People who wouldn't otherwise use drugs could be forgiven (after reading about legalization in the binary and positive way it is often reported, or from walking around a city with an upmarket weed shop every few blocks) for believing it can't be that bad for you an…

[deleted]

Re: Drug decriminalization in Oregon begins today

#108

Post by ketzo » Mon, Feb 01, 2021, 7:53 PM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #83

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Start with dinner at 6 and go to bed at 9 and that's 2/hr. Not exactly keg stands and jungle juice territory. The human body processes 1-2 drinks/hr so at the end you'll have a buzz on the order of one stiff mixed drink (~3-4 shots of stuff in the 40% ballpark spread out over a tall glass of sugary fruity stuff). Edit: And since apparently this needs saying "drink" = "the standard alcohol/drink unit that all the prof…

“1-2 drinks/hr” is not a well defined metric. It’s better to use units of alcohol: https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/alcohol-support/calculating-alc... And more than 1 5% beer is outside of almost all people’s ability to “process” in an hour. I would wager the majority of people based on size/weight can’t process a single 5% beer in an hour.

The original commenter might not have been using "drink" this way, but theoretically there is such a thing as a "standard drink": roughly 14 grams of pure alcohol, which is about 12oz of beer, 5oz of wine, or 1.5oz of liquor.

This "standard drink" is what an average person can roughly process per hour. It's all fuzzy because of how many confounding variables there are with alcohol (and because "average person" is kind of a nonsense phrase), but there you go.

Source: https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/alcohols-effects-health/overview-a...

Re: Drug decriminalization in Oregon begins today

#109

Post by rootusrootus » Mon, Feb 01, 2021, 7:53 PM UTC

aksss wrote: post #76

zappo2938 wrote: post #38

Meanwhile drug users who often don't want to stop will now move to Oregon.

Undoubtedly there will be people that do this. I used to hang out with a group that would have considered Oregon a Mecca if such a law had passed. I’m sure that subculture still exists. Maybe Oregon will be the scapegoat for the country. Maybe our labs of democracy should specialize in things - a state for gambling and gambling addiction recovery; a state for drug use and drug use recovery, etc.

And one for single payer healthcare, one for basic income, etc.

Maybe a really adventurous one will do all the above.

Re: Drug decriminalization in Oregon begins today

#110

Post by rootusrootus » Mon, Feb 01, 2021, 7:55 PM UTC

throwaway2121bx wrote: post #68

I'm a proponent for legalizing drugs. But I believe there will be negative long-term consequences from drug use becoming normalized and so easy to obtain. People who wouldn't otherwise use drugs could be forgiven (after reading about legalization in the binary and positive way it is often reported, or from walking around a city with an upmarket weed shop every few blocks) for believing it can't be that bad for you an…

Sure, there will be some consequences. But think about all of the people who won't enter adulthood already excluded from the (good) job market because they have a criminal record? I feel pretty confident that this law is going to be a net positive.