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Drug decriminalization in Oregon begins today

drugpolicy.org

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Re: Drug decriminalization in Oregon begins today

#31

Post by nooyurrsdey »

lanevorockz wrote: post #24
random_savv wrote: post #18

Good. This has worked well in other countries, particularly Portugal: https://transformdrugs.org/drug-decriminalisation-in-portuga...

Slightly hard to believe in data these days ... I went to uni in portugal and it was rare to find a student that didn't use weed. I guess this is why it was so easy to legalise it. Then the data says 10% ... it's laughable.

> I went to uni in portugal and it was rare to find a student that didn't use weed

On the other hand, this is also subjective and anecdotal? I'm not doubting that data can have errors, but I'm having hard time criticizing data because it's not what someone "expects" it to be.

Re: Drug decriminalization in Oregon begins today

#32

Post by 2III7 »

imperio59 wrote: post #6
kolbe wrote: post #3

Say what you will about your opinion of what the results of this will be, it does create an experiment for us to learn with. I think one of the great tragedies of politics is that we do not experiment enough, so when ones like this pop up naturally, it'll give us great data.

Experimenting with people's lives is not a responsible way to experiment. No one is denying these drugs are harmful, yet Oregon is basically saying "go ahead, it's fine, use these drugs". Seeing what is happening with the Marijuana lobbies coming in and putting in billions in lobbying should scare everybody. We have big tobacco to look at for where this leads. The next obvious step is to legalize all drugs, and let t…

This is not experimenting, other countries have done it before with positive results. Criminal punishment for drug posession/use is only making matters worse for those involved with "street drugs".

Re: Drug decriminalization in Oregon begins today

#33

Post by [deleted] »

imperio59 wrote: post #6
kolbe wrote: post #3

Say what you will about your opinion of what the results of this will be, it does create an experiment for us to learn with. I think one of the great tragedies of politics is that we do not experiment enough, so when ones like this pop up naturally, it'll give us great data.

Experimenting with people's lives is not a responsible way to experiment. No one is denying these drugs are harmful, yet Oregon is basically saying "go ahead, it's fine, use these drugs". Seeing what is happening with the Marijuana lobbies coming in and putting in billions in lobbying should scare everybody. We have big tobacco to look at for where this leads. The next obvious step is to legalize all drugs, and let t…

[deleted]

Re: Drug decriminalization in Oregon begins today

#34

Post by at_a_remove »

imperio59 wrote: post #6
kolbe wrote: post #3

Say what you will about your opinion of what the results of this will be, it does create an experiment for us to learn with. I think one of the great tragedies of politics is that we do not experiment enough, so when ones like this pop up naturally, it'll give us great data.

Experimenting with people's lives is not a responsible way to experiment. No one is denying these drugs are harmful, yet Oregon is basically saying "go ahead, it's fine, use these drugs". Seeing what is happening with the Marijuana lobbies coming in and putting in billions in lobbying should scare everybody. We have big tobacco to look at for where this leads. The next obvious step is to legalize all drugs, and let t…

Every state in the United States is its own little experiment in democracy, and every law passed therein experiments with someone's life, somehow. That's not a reasonable barrier to change.

Re: Drug decriminalization in Oregon begins today

#35

Post by [deleted] »

nooyurrsdey wrote: post #31
lanevorockz wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slightly hard to believe in data these days ... I went to uni in portugal and it was rare to find a student that didn't use weed. I guess this is why it was so easy to legalise it. Then the data says 10% ... it's laughable.

> I went to uni in portugal and it was rare to find a student that didn't use weed On the other hand, this is also subjective and anecdotal? I'm not doubting that data can have errors, but I'm having hard time criticizing data because it's not what someone "expects" it to be.

[deleted]

Re: Drug decriminalization in Oregon begins today

#36

Post by cronix »

kolbe wrote: post #3

Say what you will about your opinion of what the results of this will be, it does create an experiment for us to learn with. I think one of the great tragedies of politics is that we do not experiment enough, so when ones like this pop up naturally, it'll give us great data.

I'm curious how will it be different from the experiment that's been going on in Seattle for the last few years? Has hard drug use decreased there? Are there fewer needles on the streets? Fewer people visible in public that are obviously under the influence? Has drug-related crime gone down? Are there more people housed who were previously not housed due to their addiction?

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/23/opinion/sunday/opioid-cri...

Re: Drug decriminalization in Oregon begins today

#37

Post by InitialLastName »

lanevorockz wrote: post #24
random_savv wrote: post #18

Good. This has worked well in other countries, particularly Portugal: https://transformdrugs.org/drug-decriminalisation-in-portuga...

Slightly hard to believe in data these days ... I went to uni in portugal and it was rare to find a student that didn't use weed. I guess this is why it was so easy to legalise it. Then the data says 10% ... it's laughable.

You don't think it's probable that a) university years (18-22) are likely the peak point for consumption of all drugs (as they are where I live) and b) There's a substantial availability bias in which people you know who (you knew) were cannabis users vs the intersection of people you didn't know and people who didn't use cannabis without making a big deal out of it?

Re: Drug decriminalization in Oregon begins today

#39

Post by austincheney »

imperio59 wrote: post #6
kolbe wrote: post #3

Say what you will about your opinion of what the results of this will be, it does create an experiment for us to learn with. I think one of the great tragedies of politics is that we do not experiment enough, so when ones like this pop up naturally, it'll give us great data.

Experimenting with people's lives is not a responsible way to experiment. No one is denying these drugs are harmful, yet Oregon is basically saying "go ahead, it's fine, use these drugs". Seeing what is happening with the Marijuana lobbies coming in and putting in billions in lobbying should scare everybody. We have big tobacco to look at for where this leads. The next obvious step is to legalize all drugs, and let t…

Unless administered by the government drug use, in the common parlance, isn't government experimentation of peoples' lives. People are experimenting with their own lives when taking drugs/narcotics.

The reasons to decriminalize drugs, or not, from a government perspective is policy that can be typically measured as cold numbers. Such numbers can include:

* cost of drug treatment / rehabilitation

* cost of lost/missing work

* decreases in numbers of incarceration

* changes in traffic fatalities

* changes in rates/frequencies of drug consumption

Then there are second and third order effects are large policy changes that aren't immediately clear such as related petty crime, homelessness, changes in education attainment, changes to medical insurance expenses and so forth. More complicated than that are social changes that everybody wants to guess at, but are really a wild card.

Portugal has had great results with drug decriminalization, primarily that demand dramatically tanked. It isn't clear similar results will be achieved in the US due to cultural differences, but I applaud Oregon for being a test experiment that other states can learn from.

Please note that I have not stated any personal opinion for/against drug policy changes.

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