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Facebook testing notification to users about Apple privacy changes

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Re: Facebook testing notification to users about Apple privacy changes

#161

Post by imheretolearn »

kibwen wrote: post #152
bnj wrote: post #5

It's simultaneously remarkable and utterly unremarkable that Facebook has been dragged kicking and screaming into building a consent screen for this kind of tracking. Watching this tracking notification conflict unfold in the media has really helped me to refine where I stand on this: if a business depends on non-consensual tracking to be able to survive, then I'd prefer that the business has to fold before stripping…

You're more forgiving than I am. As far as I'm concerned, individual-targeted advertising has such inherently perverse incentives that even those starting out with good intentions (e.g. consensual opt-in) will eventually find themselves engaged in unethical, privacy-eroding behavior as a matter of course. Consider what would happen if you outlawed individual-targeted advertising. Ad relevancy falls overall. What then…

>> Overall advertising budgets are not dominated by the effectiveness of advertising, but by adversarial spending by their competitors

I would like to know how this conclusion was reached. By that logic, the advertising industry would not really need individual targeting at all

Re: Facebook testing notification to users about Apple privacy changes

#162

Post by allenu »

Aulig wrote: post #131
ryandrake wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similar theory behind those “do you like this app” prompts that come from the app itself. If you tap “yes” they’ll give you the prompt to rate on the AppStore. If you tap “no” they won’t. This can seriously inflate an app’s rating and help prevent low ratings. Nice, underhanded and effective dark pattern!

This is called review gating and isn't allowed: https://appradar.com/blog/ask-users-leave-review-in-app-stor...

Is it actually explicitly disallowed in Apple's guidelines? Their wording almost makes it indicate they want you to only ask for a rating when people are happy with the app:

    https://developer.apple.com/app-store/ratings-and-reviews/
    Make the request when users are most likely to feel satisfaction with your app, such as when they’ve completed an action, level, or task.

Re: Facebook testing notification to users about Apple privacy changes

#163

Post by ffpip »

wackget wrote: post #129

It's hugely ironic that this article is written/hosted by a website which runs entirely via the Google AMP platform. You can't read the article without going via Google's AMP servers, unless you use a website like https://printfriendly.com to parse it for you.

Disable javascript for axios.com. You can do it with uBlock Origin.

Then simple click Firefox's reader mode icon. Even if the page is blank, just click the reader mode icon.

Re: Facebook testing notification to users about Apple privacy changes

#164

Post by mc32 »

kibwen wrote: post #152
bnj wrote: post #5

It's simultaneously remarkable and utterly unremarkable that Facebook has been dragged kicking and screaming into building a consent screen for this kind of tracking. Watching this tracking notification conflict unfold in the media has really helped me to refine where I stand on this: if a business depends on non-consensual tracking to be able to survive, then I'd prefer that the business has to fold before stripping…

You're more forgiving than I am. As far as I'm concerned, individual-targeted advertising has such inherently perverse incentives that even those starting out with good intentions (e.g. consensual opt-in) will eventually find themselves engaged in unethical, privacy-eroding behavior as a matter of course. Consider what would happen if you outlawed individual-targeted advertising. Ad relevancy falls overall. What then…

>” Would consumers spend less money? No...”

I’m not sure about that. A lot of advertising is about appearances and superficial things. Example. Do we need cars in the US to get from place to place (NYC, etc excepted) Yes! Does it have to have bells and whistles? No. Can an entry level car do the job in the great majority of cases? Does it have to be a “luxury” brand? Or an upscale model?

Spending would go down. Good, bad? That’s another discussion.

Re: Facebook testing notification to users about Apple privacy changes

#165

Post by MonAlternatiu »

Illniyar wrote: post #141
MonAlternatiu wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article has precisely that prompt in one of the images. The thing is, just like certain apps require certain permissions (camera app wants to access the camera, device files, etc..) I believe a lot of people will just accept these conditions without realizing they are completely optional.

A lot of people will. But there's also strong education regarding system prompts. Users know when an app is asking for extra permissions (which this is basically the same of). Those people who care about what permissions apps have will know what to click. Those who don't care, that's the most you can do. Besides even Facebook estimate that only 10-30% will click allow. I'm not sure if you can ask for more at this poi…

It would be awesome if the users were forced to navigate a settings menu, find the app on a list of apps, and manually enable the option.

One can only dream.

Re: Facebook testing notification to users about Apple privacy changes

#166

Post by imheretolearn »

I am happy that this is happening. It was about time someone gave it back to FB. FB has time and again crossed boundaries for which it has had to apologize everytime. It seems like they cannot regulate themselves so someone from the outside has to step in. I hope this changes the individual tracking landscape a bit even though the Big G is still a larger issue that needs to be addressed

Re: Facebook testing notification to users about Apple privacy changes

#167

Post by kerng »

To be honest, I dont accept the argument that extremly detailed tracking is the only way to show relevant ads. High level information is probably enough and I'm sure FB would still make tons of money by even showing random ads.

Makes you wonder if there is actually another reason for collecting all that data? Like building AI and ML models for other purposes.

Re: Facebook testing notification to users about Apple privacy changes

#168

Post by mgreg »

lumost wrote: post #31
erentz wrote: post #18

What would happen if legislation were passed to ban all tracking, across the board? Perhaps also inclusive of limits on targeted advertising also (to reduce the incentive to gather personal data). It seems this kind of universal disarmament (so to speak) still leaves FB in the same dominant position from an advertising perspective. It has the same huge audience, and it’s advertising product is the same as everyone el…

There are a few factors at play here when it comes to advertising. 1) Digital is taking over all ad-channels 2) Digital ads can be tracked and attributed ways that were never possible with traditional media 3) It turns out most non-targeted ads aren't actually that effective, and aggregate ad spend is falling. FB ads are effective and high value because of tracking. If tracking goes away, FB ad revenue will fall to t…

> 3) It turns out most non-targeted ads aren't actually that effective, and aggregate ad spend is falling.

While this is a commonly held believe in many corners it doesn't appear to be well backed by data & research. Freakonomics also covered this topic in some detail recently.

Some examples where it's proven untrue:

Nytimes drops targeted advertising in Europe: https://digiday.com/media/gumgumtest-new-york-times-gdpr-cut...

>“The fact that we are no longer offering behavioral targeting options in Europe does not seem to be in the way of what advertisers want to do with us,” he said. “The desirability of a brand may be stronger than the targeting capabilities. We have not been impacted from a revenue standpoint, and, on the contrary, our digital advertising business continues to grow nicely.”

Danish broadcaster grew revenue after dropping targeted ads: https://techcrunch.com/2020/07/24/data-from-dutch-public-bro...

>The data shows the NPO grew ad revenue after ditching trackers to target ads in the first half of this year

Re: Facebook testing notification to users about Apple privacy changes

#169

Post by rickdeveloper »

idreyn wrote: post #69
notyourwork wrote: post #3

Why would anyone agree to this? I don’t see a benefit to letting Facebook or any company track me across the internet. When did we ever decide this was what consumers wanted? Every time this topic comes up I check Facebooks stock price and realize how detached people are from facebooks revenue driven by the advertisement market.

I'm a simple man -- if I see a button with a primary intent color standing between me and my content I've been conditioned to press it, often before I realize what I'm doing or reading the accompanying text. Probably tens of millions of people will do the same here.

What do you think about a 10s delay (or whatever an appropriate reading time is) before the buttons become active?

Re: Facebook testing notification to users about Apple privacy changes

#170

Post by local_dev »

lumost wrote: post #146
grishka wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever talked to someone who works in adtech? They do sincerely believe that ads are helpful to people.

I worked in ad-tech for years, ultimately the convincing data is that people actually do click on ads. They do buy the products, and they do this more often than they would have had we not shown the ads at all (for some market segments). I've often wondered if there is a population of users who simply hate ads to the extent that any impression will be net negative value to the advertiser, and what mechanisms could be…

>if there is a population of users who simply hate ads to the extent that any impression will be net negative value to the advertiser

This segment of the population absolutely exists and I would guess that it is growing. Many people in my circle block ads on every device possible. Seeing any ad is an immediate negative impression for my group of friends.

This is entirely anecdotal, but I've seen this same sentiment in many other circles and am hearing it more and more often.

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