Facebook testing notification to users about Apple privacy changes • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook testing notification to users about Apple privacy changes

#91

Post by MonAlternatiu » Mon, Feb 01, 2021, 5:58 PM UTC

Illniyar wrote: post #77

idreyn wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a simple man -- if I see a button with a primary intent color standing between me and my content I've been conditioned to press it, often before I realize what I'm doing or reading the accompanying text. Probably tens of millions of people will do the same here.

I assume the button will prompt a system alert of some kind, no?

The article has precisely that prompt in one of the images.

The thing is, just like certain apps require certain permissions (camera app wants to access the camera, device files, etc..) I believe a lot of people will just accept these conditions without realizing they are completely optional.

Re: Facebook testing notification to users about Apple privacy changes

#92

Post by adrr » Mon, Feb 01, 2021, 5:58 PM UTC

notyourwork wrote: post #3

Why would anyone agree to this? I don’t see a benefit to letting Facebook or any company track me across the internet. When did we ever decide this was what consumers wanted? Every time this topic comes up I check Facebooks stock price and realize how detached people are from facebooks revenue driven by the advertisement market.

More relevant ads would be the benefit for the user.

Re: Facebook testing notification to users about Apple privacy changes

#93

Post by phito » Mon, Feb 01, 2021, 5:59 PM UTC

dTal wrote: post #72

randmeerkat wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone has options. I deleted FB years ago. No one actually needs FB.

It's very narrow-minded to assume that because you don't need Facebook, no one does. Facebook clearly provides some value, or no one would use it at all. Some people can't afford not to take advantage of that value. You can't tell a small business "don't use Facebook for social media outreach, it's evil and monopolistic" when the alternative is being outcompeted by those who do.

Totally agree. I have a very niche small business (you can check my comment history) and all the community is on facebook, it has completely replaced forums. I don't have a choice, I need facebook and instagram otherwise I wouldn't be able to reach them.

Re: Facebook testing notification to users about Apple privacy changes

#94

Post by yters » Mon, Feb 01, 2021, 5:59 PM UTC

reaperducer wrote: post #12

yters wrote: post #9

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theonion.com/cias-facebook-...

Non-Amp link: https://www.theonion.com/cias-facebook-program-dramatically-...

I wonder if Google ever sanitizes web pages filtered through its amp servers.

Re: Facebook testing notification to users about Apple privacy changes

#95

Post by lumost » Mon, Feb 01, 2021, 5:59 PM UTC

otabdeveloper4 wrote: post #68

lumost wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a few factors at play here when it comes to advertising. 1) Digital is taking over all ad-channels 2) Digital ads can be tracked and attributed ways that were never possible with traditional media 3) It turns out most non-targeted ads aren't actually that effective, and aggregate ad spend is falling. FB ads are effective and high value because of tracking. If tracking goes away, FB ad revenue will fall to t…

> FB ads are effective and high value Not really. Digital advertising, frankly, sucks from the advertiser's point of view. It's just that people are online now and advertisers have no choice: the inventory providers are monopolistic and unregulated.

A more fair comparison might be that all advertising sucks from an advertisers perspective... but we just didn't have a good way to measure it.

In the world of Nielson and print the only consistently measurable ads were brand ads - and brand awareness had a loose correlation across businesses with revenue. There was no way of rigorously testing whether individual customers propensity to purchase a good from a given business was actually tied to any of the brand awareness ads that were being purchased, or customer's brands they had heard of for trust reasons after deciding on a purchase, or if customer's simply didn't care about the branding. Bear in mind, any negative datapoint that indicates customer's didn't care could always be taken as a sign that the "brand" had to be improved. Not that the ads were worthless.

Now on digital any brand exercise, direct pay per conversion, or other form of ad gets attributed to downstream revenue, and we're quickly discovering which half of the marketing budget isn't working.

Re: Facebook testing notification to users about Apple privacy changes

#96

Post by whammywon » Mon, Feb 01, 2021, 6:00 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #81

whammywon wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but I think it would be a bit naïve to think that Apple is doing so out of the kindness of their hearts. Apple already has access to all the metrics that Facebook would be interested in. It seems to me like this is a set-up for Apple to force FB to buy the data directly from them.

> it would be a bit naïve to think that Apple is doing so out of the kindness of their hearts Good. If they were doing it out of charity, a bit profit pressure, shareholder activism or change in management and the move is reversed. Being grounded in sound business logic and self-interest makes me trust it.

I never meant to imply that I thought Apple's (possible) intent was a good thing.

I just think that a significant number of people will see what they're doing and thing "Oh, they're looking out for me." I think it's best to be skeptical of any company's motives, whether their current business decisions seem to help their users or not.

Re: Facebook testing notification to users about Apple privacy changes

#97

Post by dmitrygr » Mon, Feb 01, 2021, 6:00 PM UTC

idreyn wrote: post #87

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remember though that this doesn't replace Apple's prompt!

That's true, I forgot about that. I appreciate that those prompts don't highlight a particular option which tends to force you to read them. I wonder how often Apple will allow apps to re-request this permission when it's been denied; I have a handful of iOS apps that are constantly asking me to grant permission to see more of my photos, and I wish they'd rate-limit that kind of abuse.

It actually is. A while ago, someone (i think fb) produced an article that showed that to avoid the issue, they find it is best to show user their own similar screen, and only if the user clicks "yes", show the OS screen (cause for that one you only get one chance). I suspect you're seeing the apps' first "app-made" screen and not the OS one. Look carefully. If so, click yes there, and NO on the OS screen.

Re: Facebook testing notification to users about Apple privacy changes

#98

Post by ska » Mon, Feb 01, 2021, 6:00 PM UTC

umvi wrote: post #67

meekrohprocess wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree in principle, and so did I, but there's no denying that it puts a major crimp on your social life. It's wrong that people are forced to decide between accepting predatory terms or losing touch with friendly acquaintances. Also, if you own a small business, there's a real chance that you'd rely on Facebook for a significant portion of your business, because without a presence on their platforms you had may as…

> but there's no denying that it puts a major crimp on your social life In what way? Social lives existed before 2008 when FB went mainstream. I don't have a FB anymore, and I still text my friends for get-togethers.

> In what way?

In the obvious way for some people? It's disingenuous to pretend that opting out of FB doesn't have negative social consequences for some (many?) people, and dismissing their concerns probably isn't a good way to change anyone's mind.

Re: Facebook testing notification to users about Apple privacy changes

#99

Post by _1gwx » Mon, Feb 01, 2021, 6:01 PM UTC

Do not miss the Facebook articles linked from the page.

"We disagree: personalization doesn’t have to come at the expense of privacy. We can do both, and we can do both well. We’ve built products that lead the industry in transparency and offer settings and controls to help people manage their privacy."

"So if you recently bought a hiking backpack from a local outdoor gear supplier and are no longer looking for a new one, you can choose to remove the outdoor gear supplier from this list of businesses, and disconnect that information from your account."

For a company that prides itself with transparency, you could start with not lying to people in such a blunt and despicable way. See, I don't want you to know that I bought a hiking backpack. Why should you know? Why do you think you are the arbitrer of the market, that people cannot do their own research and that small business need you? This is a false premise, and your position is a blatant JOKE that at this point is also sad and unremarkable.

Stop lying to people, you sad surveillance capitalists.

https://about.fb.com/news/2020/12/personalized-advertising-a...

https://about.fb.com/news/2020/10/a-path-forward-for-privacy...

Re: Facebook testing notification to users about Apple privacy changes

#100

Post by danShumway » Mon, Feb 01, 2021, 6:01 PM UTC

> "Apple’s new prompt suggests there is a tradeoff between personalized advertising and privacy; when in fact, we can and do provide both."

It's a somewhat bold but not completely implausible claim to argue that highly personalized ads are compatible with privacy. There are theoretically schemes that could make that work.

But it is, however, a wicked bold claim for Facebook to go a step farther say they are already currently providing both privacy and personalized advertising. Does anyone, at all, believe them when they say that?