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CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

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Re: CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

#401

Post by eecc »

rorykoehler wrote: post #370
nataz wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ha, I'm currently a federal government program manager, so I am thinking about it from the government's side right now. I've also been a consultant cog in a mega-corp and run my own small consulting business, so I've seen it from both sides. Tech folks underestimate non tech challenges (basically anything outside of their domain), and clients don't actually know what they want. It's an age old problem in lots of indu…

I’ve been working in enterprise/government sector for a few years now and my observation is that they need to focus on better systems design. Everything is too convoluted. Trying to make the software fit the poorly thought out and implemented legacy ERP design from yesteryear is where most of the money is wasted.

Oh, my last disappointment of the week was being lectured via 2 screenfuls of Confluence with a “it’s more complex that what you make it” exposure of 2-3 layers of encrusted legacies. The PO was flexing and glowing how their managed to build into the new product this synthesis of bad designs. Which means entire departments get a list of rotating passwords by email every couple weeks. The network of ossified legacies just grew one more sprout.

Re: CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

#402

Post by seebetter »

nataz wrote: post #284
eigenvector wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now think of the problem in reverse, from the government's side. Why are they contracting it out when all of the most difficult aspects involve integrating with government systems, policies and personnel - things that government already knows how to do? "Because we don't have the expertise to do software development." The comments in this thread, which I fully agree with by the way, just cement my belief that if gove…

Ha, I'm currently a federal government program manager, so I am thinking about it from the government's side right now. I've also been a consultant cog in a mega-corp and run my own small consulting business, so I've seen it from both sides. Tech folks underestimate non tech challenges (basically anything outside of their domain), and clients don't actually know what they want. It's an age old problem in lots of indu…

Lol, I worked in hardware development for 8 years and politics for a few and now government research.

100% of problem is the core underlying philosophical concept of the theory of administration and bureaucracy. It’s not a broken system, it’s a broken concept.

Re: CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

#403

Post by smsm42 »

zaroth wrote: post #115

> Deloitte is the only contractor that can meet the project requirements, because configuration of the VAMS application is occurring using Deloitte’s propriety GovConnect platform. Therefore, no other contractor has rights or access to leverage the system to carry out O&M activities, such as the administration of the system, change and defect management and end user support. As the only contractor with the GovConnect…

Somebody had written this with exact purpose to give this contract to Deloitte. I would be very surprised if there wasn't bribery involved.

Re: CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

#404

Post by brabel »

offtop5 wrote: post #241
brundolf wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They only have to be better than the Deloitte grifters

The article mentions Florida using Eventbrite. That seems like a much better solution rather than rolling your own.

Tell that to the people on this thread trying to justify how 45M is reasonable for a project like this because "software development is just a small part of the process". If a state can use freaking Eventbrite for this, clearly they are wrong.

Re: CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

#405

Post by smsm42 »

aasasd wrote: post #400
zaroth wrote: post #115

> Deloitte is the only contractor that can meet the project requirements, because configuration of the VAMS application is occurring using Deloitte’s propriety GovConnect platform. Therefore, no other contractor has rights or access to leverage the system to carry out O&M activities, such as the administration of the system, change and defect management and end user support. As the only contractor with the GovConnect…

Reads like a copy of Russian government contract practices. Put up a contest, list requirements in such a way that only one company would satisfy them without going bust or mad, award the contract to that company. ‘Make the thing using this and that technologies’ does appear regularly.

Russia at some point instituted a law that all contracts have to be published in a centralized database. So, to award contracts to specific companies, an array of techniques was developed to prevent anyone from using that database to bid on those contracts. The names of the goods are misspelled, spelled using a mix of Cyrillic and Latin alphabets, the items are required to be of specific model with tiny modification from common one that only one (pre-arranged) provider happens to have, unusual names are used for goods, etc. etc. It's a whole branch of art now.

Re: CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

#406

Post by brabel »

mdorazio wrote: post #52
didibus wrote: post #13

I just don't understand these software deals, the price is so high. At 44 million, you can hire 146 engineers each paid 300k for a full year. Trust me, you need much less to build something like this, and there's no excuse for it to suck so bad. I'm also curious, anyone know where the development actually happened? Did Deloitte further subcontracted out? Was it outsourced?

These contracts are generally bloated, but if you've never seen how a $10M+ contract for things like this works you're probably thinking about it wrong. The actual development piece is a pretty small portion of the overall work. The bulk of it is figuring out all the requirements, wrangling legacy systems and data into some kind of shape that can either be interfaced with or imported, documentation, support (includin…

Bullshit. The broken system Delloit developed is being replaced with Eventbrite in certain states, pen and paper in others. All the users needed was a simple scheduling system which shouldn't cost anywhere near 40M to develop no matter how you spin it. Is Eventbrite works for this, why did no one actually think to just use that (or the many similar systems created for this kind of thing)? Pretty sure Deloit itself just wrapped something like Eventbrite around a skin UI and delivered that.

The only answer I can come up with, even after trying to be generous, is corruption. The fact that there was no bidding should be enough for that contract to be highly suspicious. People in the top are pocketing most of the 40M and everyone involved knows it.

Re: CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

#407

Post by madaxe_again »

lmilcin wrote: post #17

I have worked with Deloitte on two projects (on clients' side, I would never willingly work for Deloitte). Generally expect them to do absolute minimum necessary to meet the contract. The code was obfuscated to ensure support contract. The people employed to write it were not interested in the quality in the slightest but were interested a lot in specifics of the contract.

The people doing the development were likely not developers. A particularly common path is studying a random subject at university, doing a law conversion course, failing to get a pupillage or a position with a commercial solicitors, and going to Deloitte as a trainee consultant.

There, they put you through a six week course in which you become a developer, and you’re then hired out for £800 a day as a technical expert.

Source: literally half the people I went to university with.

Fond memories of sitting at the kitchen table and trying to coach my flat mate through unfucking the air ground traffic control system that they were writing for BAA in VB5, in 2005. No idea if it ever went into production.

Re: CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

#408

Post by raverbashing »

hertzrat wrote: post #219
Zenst wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, how to apply and secure governmental contracts and grants is something many educational curriculum miss out upon in life.

How does the process work?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_procurement_in_the_...

This is the overview, there are other websites that go more into the details if you google it

But basically it is survival of the most boring and the most detailistic. Then of course you lose the tender because you weren't "in the know", or you missed the requirements of the Toilet Procurement acts of 1974 which specified the thickness and traction resistance of toilet paper used in government purchases.

Oh and if you're "lucky" your Health contract management software will suddenly have to be able to order pizza as well, you know, it's "just an extra thing". But you won't get paid while that doesn't happen (ok this might not apply to the USA specifically, but you get the idea)

Re: CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

#409

Post by timmy-turner »

jiggawatts wrote: post #255
didibus wrote: post #13

I just don't understand these software deals, the price is so high. At 44 million, you can hire 146 engineers each paid 300k for a full year. Trust me, you need much less to build something like this, and there's no excuse for it to suck so bad. I'm also curious, anyone know where the development actually happened? Did Deloitte further subcontracted out? Was it outsourced?

Let me try to explain using analogies. Organisations are like people. Their culture is like someone's personality. Dealing with easygoing people is much smoother than paranoid delusional people with OCD. In the same way, dealing with government agencies is difficult because their corporate culture -- their personality -- is not what most people would categorise as normal. These deals aren't normal deals. They're the…

Reading "Let me try to explain using analogies.", I was worried someone would come up with another car anology.

Seeing orgs as people with characters, oh my, my eyes are opened now. Sounds weird but it makes sense the few times that I have worked on contracted projects.

For me, an added complexity in gauging the other side of the contract is that their personality changes depending on the actual people that are involved. When some higher-ups join the project it in later stages, the personality may turns even more mental than it already is.

Re: CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

#410

Post by TheColorYellow »

nataz wrote: post #284
eigenvector wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now think of the problem in reverse, from the government's side. Why are they contracting it out when all of the most difficult aspects involve integrating with government systems, policies and personnel - things that government already knows how to do? "Because we don't have the expertise to do software development." The comments in this thread, which I fully agree with by the way, just cement my belief that if gove…

Ha, I'm currently a federal government program manager, so I am thinking about it from the government's side right now. I've also been a consultant cog in a mega-corp and run my own small consulting business, so I've seen it from both sides. Tech folks underestimate non tech challenges (basically anything outside of their domain), and clients don't actually know what they want. It's an age old problem in lots of indu…

I work in a similar sector but have a strong belief that the software delivery can and should become a capability that occurs within the government.

They should be diligent in what capabilities they choose to support. And ruthless in continually developing and pivoting these capabilities.

This is true of any large organization or enterprise that operates in a software enabled domain, so yes, most industries. The idea that software development is too difficult and should only be contracted out to fleety consultants is one that needs to be properly put to rest.

And to be clear, I'm not saying that consultants have no place. But for the type of technology and delivery as required by the project in the OP - there's no excuse.

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