Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store • Hacker News Board

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#831

Post by TheJoYo » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 9:50 PM UTC

tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #505

grishka wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There aren't that many hurdles. 1. You download the apk 2. When you try to install it, it tells you it's from an unknown source and the installation was blocked to protect you 3. You tap "settings" and flip a switch to allow installing apps from your browser 4. You go back and tap "install". That's it. It's done. And you won't need to go to the settings the next time, it'll just work.

The main hurdle is that (without rooting) there doesn't seem to be a way for alternative app stores to silently update software. That's bearable though unpleasant when you have one or two pieces of software that rarely get updated, that's absolutely impossible when you have 10+ pieces of software - you'll sit there for 5 minutes just approving install prompts every week, which isn't something a normal human is going…

even google play store has a hard time silently updating these days.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#832

Post by megous » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 10:19 PM UTC

vbezhenar wrote: post #592

GlitchMr wrote: post #520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hm, yeah, I think you are right here. That said, the reason for removal provided by Google seems to be nonsensical ("abusive content somewhere on Matrix", really?), so mediation should be effective here. This particular reason easily applies to an application like Google Chrome, and EU regulation 2019/1150 requires differential treatment to be documented, which I don't think it is in this case.

Chrome has “malicious website” feature to censor any website they want. Does Element have anything similar?

That's optional. User can turn it off.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#833

Post by seniorivn » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 10:20 PM UTC

Thorentis wrote: post #327

ssivark wrote: post #2

I have no idea whether this is correlated with the other recent de-platforming events, but the rapidly growing list of examples is now getting ridiculous. It’s crazy to imagine that the rug could get pulled out from beneath any of us, any time, under any pretext (or no pretext at all!). I don’t know whether a more apt metaphor alludes to serfs on feudal land, or The Trial by Kafka. If it turns out this is because of…

Banning Element because of channels created on a decentralised network makes as much sense as banning a web-browser because of websites created on a decentralised network (i.e., the Internet). Looking forward to Chrome's imminent removal from the Play Store.

only if chrome is not censoring internet which google is happy to do

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#834

Post by pimeys » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 10:31 PM UTC

afkqs wrote: post #820

pimeys wrote: post #728

Oh wow, this chat has blown up with messages and I doubt anybody will see this message at this point, but here we go. During these weeks of being at home and having lots of free time after work, I've been doing _projects_. For a while, I've been reading how people rant about Matrix always on HN, and I finally decided to suck it, install my own home server and try it out by myself. The installation for sure requires a…

> I highly recommend using some of the automated tools, such as the ansible playbook[0] to help you out maintaining the server You forgot to link the Ansible playbook you're talking about :)

Of course I did https://github.com/spantaleev/matrix-docker-ansible-deploy

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#835

Post by anderspitman » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 10:36 PM UTC

grishka wrote: post #791

anderspitman wrote: post #787

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I misinterpreted your original comment. I was thinking in terms of the app being in control of itself ie JNI type stuff. Sounds like there are ways to do it within the Android ecosystem, but in cases where Google is suspending things wouldn't they just turn off all the self-update stuff?

Google doesn't have the technical ability to "turn off all the self-update stuff", if you mean preventing non-store apps from updating themselves by downloading and installing apks. The worst thing they can try doing is bullying the users into uninstalling the app through Google Play Protect.

I'm not deep enough in the Android ecosystem to understand all the details. I've only had the misfortune of trying to get a (very portably-written) golang application to run in the environment, and hitting roadblock after roadblock.

I guess my overall point is that Google is motivated to have complete control over Android app distribution, and they'll plug as many of the types of holes you're talking about as they can get away with.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#836

Post by userbinator » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 11:03 PM UTC

ttt0 wrote: post #304

uncoder0 wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You, like Parler, have been targeted by the powers that be. You may have nothing else in common other than that but, you're in the same boat it seems.

People will surely point out the obvious differences between the takedown of Parler and Element and I'd agree that it's not exactly the same thing, since Parler is its own platform and Element is just a client. However, when looking on a bigger picture of the recent takedowns and trying to make sense of it, it does indeed seem to be connected. The only conclusion that seems rational to me is as follows: Everyone trie…

For the past few years, it seems that Trump was really the only thing standing in the way of Big Tech; but now that they've crushed him and the fringe extremists, the extremes have shifted and they are only going to wield their powers even more. The events of the past few months are certainly showing a pattern, and quite frankly, it's extremely scary to see what I thought would happen, actually happen. They have killed the canaries, and the frog is starting to boil.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#837

Post by eternalban » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 11:05 PM UTC

mrec wrote: post #780

eternalban wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(LOL), you're not alone.

There's literally twos of us!

I am making an effort to also revert back to keeping physical notebooks. I have a mini library of notebooks that stop at 1996. That year I bought a power pc (for Java) and the record of my thoughts are spread over various boxes, legacy media, and buried deep in nested directories. It was a mistake, in retrospect.

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#838

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 11:15 PM UTC

Arathorn wrote: post #472

Arathorn wrote: post #3

So we got notified by the developer console at 21:45 UTC that the app had been suspended, but still haven’t had an email to explain why - it’s 02:24 now. Our assumption that this is due to someone reporting abusive content in Matrix to Google, and Element catching the blame — although this is currently speculation. To be clear: Element is a Matrix client just as Chrome is a Web browser, and just as it’s possible to v…

We received a generic update at 05:31 UTC confirming that the app had been suspended due to abusive content (Sexual Content and Profanity: https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/answ... ); we're following up to explain how Matrix and Element works and get this resolved.

[deleted]

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#839

Post by rglullis » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 11:18 PM UTC

o-__-o wrote: post #797

rglullis wrote: post #772

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An outdated version of the server whose development team has no incentive whatsoever of supporting for your use case. Can you run it? Sure. Should you?

Why does any source code exist then? What is the point of GitHub with codebases that are 7+ years old? Would mass adoption of the outdated server force updates or god forbid a fork of the code base? Please excuse me for being direct, I do not accept your defeatist attitude on this one. You won’t have stickers, such a shame, but you would have the ability to create your own signal service

If Signal was the only alternative to have an internal messaging tool, sure, it would make sense to invest time and money on it to keep it up.

But it doesn't. There are options. If I had to choose, I would rather invest this time and money to collaborate on the existing protocols that do have the goal of being fully open. Matrix and XMPP can do the things that I want and there are plenty of people working on them to overcome the present issues and challenges for mass adoption.

Why should I swim upstream by myself if there is no special reward for this kind of effort?

Re: Element (Matrix chat app) suspended from the Google Play Store

#840

Post by cbarrick » Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 11:21 PM UTC

megous wrote: post #832

vbezhenar wrote: post #592

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chrome has “malicious website” feature to censor any website they want. Does Element have anything similar?

That's optional. User can turn it off.

But it's on by default, just like Reddit apps are required to have NSFW filters on by default.

I dunno if it's possible to do this kind of filter on Matrix.

That said, if they go with this argument, the precedent would have to apply to all other unfiltered, federated messaging clients, including those for IRC and email.