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Split keyboards and how to build them

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Re: Split keyboards and how to build them

#101

Post by samatman »

betwixthewires wrote: post #45

I'm curious why none of these split designs ever feature a trackball on the right half integrated into the board somehow. There are plenty of FOSS trackball designs, it seems like it would just make sense, especially for ergonomic designs, to have a trackball set up where you don't have to move your hand over to move a cursor. Also I don't understand why they're always missing function keys.

Function keys are trivial. I already have 1 through 0, and two more keys on the same row, so I map them to Layer 1, which I have both a momentary and toggle version of on my deck. I put F11 to the left and F12 to the right, not that it matters.

So for just F5, it's as easy to type as %. For, say, Ctrl-Alt-F4, I hit layer, then Ctrl-Alt-4, then layer again.

I grant that someone might make much heavier use of function keys and find this inconvenient. I don't miss them in the slightest.

An integrated trackball might be nice, although I'm not sure where to put it that would be comfortable. I have a trackball to the right of the keyboard, this suits me fine.

Re: Split keyboards and how to build them

#102

Post by nine_k »

betwixthewires wrote: post #45

I'm curious why none of these split designs ever feature a trackball on the right half integrated into the board somehow. There are plenty of FOSS trackball designs, it seems like it would just make sense, especially for ergonomic designs, to have a trackball set up where you don't have to move your hand over to move a cursor. Also I don't understand why they're always missing function keys.

Usually you don't want to move your hands a lot, else you'd be fine with a non-split keyboard.

But then there's very little room to put a pointer control device. With the bulky mechanical switches, you have virtually no room to squeeze in a trackpoint, like on laptops. Also, you want the space comfortably reachable by thumbs for keys.

And if you agree to lift and move your hand anyway, why not use a mouse of your choosing?

I don't yet have a solution.

Re: Split keyboards and how to build them

#103

Post by samatman »

banana_giraffe wrote: post #4

One thing I'm always curious about, especially with some of the layouts of keyboards with multiple "layers" to accomplish things: Do people using these keyboards as their daily driver have trouble adapting to normal keyboards they need to use from time to time. I suppose I could try one and find out if it's an issue for me, but I'd be worried I get deep into this rabbit hole only to find I'm useless if I have to work…

My ErgoDox layout has a few keys in radically different places, such as -, =, and `.

I do find that I get those wrong a bit when I switch back to the laptop.

Oddly, never a problem with tab and return, the main thumb keys (besides space, which doesn't change), although I really miss "delete back one word" which is my fourth large thumb key. Alt-backspace is just not the same.

Re: Split keyboards and how to build them

#104

Post by selftest »

__mharrison__ wrote: post #50

I get that these are expensive... But they might be a career saver. Listen to your body. If your fingers and wrists are telling you something, take action. It doesn't have to be an expensive split. (I have an ergodox with the Norman keyboard layout with other firmware goodies as well as running AutoHotKeys to give me emacs bindings all over the place.)

They don’t have to be expensive! More than the $30 Big Box special but often cheaper than a comparable “gaming” keyboard. I’ve built boards for as little as $50 and you can do it for even cheaper if you have access to a 3D printer and don’t mind some tedious wiring and soldering.

Re: Split keyboards and how to build them

#105

Post by acjohnson55 »

flor1s wrote: post #79
betwixthewires wrote: post #45

I'm curious why none of these split designs ever feature a trackball on the right half integrated into the board somehow. There are plenty of FOSS trackball designs, it seems like it would just make sense, especially for ergonomic designs, to have a trackball set up where you don't have to move your hand over to move a cursor. Also I don't understand why they're always missing function keys.

This would solve one of the biggest problems I have with split keyboards; where do I put my mouse? At least I'm using a Logitech Ergo Trackball, which means that I can predictability move from the keyboard to the mouse, but there is no easy way of positioning a keyboard like the ErgoDox EZ while still comfortably using the mouse as well. I ended up switching to a smaller Razer BlackWidow Lite as it allows for a more…

I use a Magic Trackpad in the middle. But I can see how if I used a mouse or trackball, that wouldn't work as well.

I also can use mouse navigation by key on an alternate layer. I wouldn't describe it as amazing, but it's surprisingly usable.

Re: Split keyboards and how to build them

#106

Post by acjohnson55 »

erjiang wrote: post #80
dexwiz wrote: post #29

I looked at building these this summer. Ultimately I decided I wanted a split keyboard, but didn't want to learn a new ortho layout or spend $300. I ended up buying a Kinesis Freestyle 2, which is one of the few "normal" split keyboards. I liked it so much I bought a second one with the Mac Meta keys, so I still ended up spending $300 anyways, but got two keyboards. What I didn't do was spend an extra $50 on the tilt…

I'm currently using a Freestyle 2 but very tempted to get one of the keyboards featured in the linked page. The main gripe I have with the Freestyle 2 is that I'd like to be able to separate the two keyboard halves much farther. I wish the cord between the two halves wasn't so short and hard to replace. The other gripes are minor: don't really love the switches, the volume buttons don't work on Linux, and the tilt ki…

I moved from the Freestyle 2 to the Moonlander, and I'm a big fan of the following changes:

- Ortholinear layout, rather than staggered

- Sculptured keycaps, which I bought separately

- Modifier keys under my thumbs, making combos far easier

- Cursor keys in home position, using layers

- As you mentioned, a longer stretch between the halves

I've made many other tweaks that add joy beyond that, but those are the ones that made the upgrade worthwhile.

Re: Split keyboards and how to build them

#107

Post by fpgaminer »

neuronexmachina wrote: post #94
fpgaminer wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read a blog post on Coding Horror back in the mid 2000s about the importance of a good chair. It really opened my eyes and convinced me that, regardless of the cost, an ergonomic working environment is worth every penny. So fast forward about two decades ... and I finally bought my first ergonomic chair... It's stunning how stubborn we can be, even when we know for certain that something is good for us. I don't eve…

> the chair I ended up buying was like $500, delivered, with all the upgrades, because it was remanufactured Did you order your remanufactured chair from Crandall or BOTD? I just ordered a remanufactured Steelcase Leap V2 yesterday, looking forward to its arrival!

Yup, Crandall. Took awhile to ship, but otherwise went smoothly. Looks and feels good as new. Word of advice: don't assemble it on carpet unless you want black grease stains...

Re: Split keyboards and how to build them

#108

Post by acjohnson55 »

vemv wrote: post #56

Anyone know of a compact keyboard that has 3 modifier keys (ctrl+cmd+option) per hand, at the bottom row? The would suit greatly my editing style - I'm surprised that most hackers don't seem to appreciate this approach. The Matias Tenkeyless models are like that, but they also could be a bit more compact.

With the Moonlander, I do exactly this on my left thumb cluster. I get really easy combos of Shift, Cmd, and/or Option. Ctrl is harder to combine with my thumb, so I have alternate modifier keys, too -- left Shift left of Z, left Ctrl by holding down Z, and left Alt by holding down X.

Re: Split keyboards and how to build them

#109

Post by winrid »

bonchicbongenre wrote: post #99

I recently was gifted -- very, very generously! -- a Moonlander Mark I split, ortholinear keyboard [0] (made by the same company that previously made the Ergodox). It's genuinely fantastic, and I can't ever see myself going back to either a non-split or a non-ortholinear board as my desktop's input. It's a huge improvement ergonomically -- (0) no hunched shoulders, with the halves at shoulder width (1) the ortholinea…

Has anyone tried this and the Freestyle Pro and have a preference?

Re: Split keyboards and how to build them

#110

Post by nikau »

mech422 wrote: post #88
eyeball wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

been waiting on those for years, they have not started to ship

Yeah - they're really seeming like vaporware... :-( Given how small the trackball is, I'm not sure if I'd prefer the trackball or trackpoint/electric eraser

I used a Texas instruments laptop around 30 years ago which had a tiny clip on track ball like that keyboard
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