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Split keyboards and how to build them

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Re: Split keyboards and how to build them

#41

Post by Kaze404 »

I bought an Ergo Dox a couple years ago. It was by far my most expensive investment so far (due to exchange rates and import taxes) but it was a complete game changer for me.

As much as I was sold on it, a part of me still thought I was being duped into buying something that wouldn't really help me in any way but I'm so glad I was wrong. Typing on the Ergo Dox feels like a completely different experience from regular keyboards, because it fundamentally is. It's a keyboard that adapts to my body and arms, as opposed to the other way around which is the (unfortunate) norm.

Re: Split keyboards and how to build them

#42

Post by andredz »

avindroth wrote: post #21
nbzso wrote: post #3

Speaking of real ergonomic and health in my humble opinion, the designs with Concave keywell (Kinesis/Dactyl) are the way to go. I have jumped on to Kinesis Advantage 2 and all my wrist pain is no more.

I'd go all the way and also add dvorak (programmer's) to the mix. But if somebody goes out of the way to buy an ergonomic keyboard, they are probably fiddling around with keymaps, too.

I sometimes use http://programmer-dvorak.appspot.com/ to practice. The ergonomics of accentuation is inconvenient, but this probably solves the problem: https://github.com/N0rthw1nd/Latin-Dvorak

Re: Split keyboards and how to build them

#43

Post by splintercell »

Kaze404 wrote: post #41

I bought an Ergo Dox a couple years ago. It was by far my most expensive investment so far (due to exchange rates and import taxes) but it was a complete game changer for me. As much as I was sold on it, a part of me still thought I was being duped into buying something that wouldn't really help me in any way but I'm so glad I was wrong. Typing on the Ergo Dox feels like a completely different experience from regular…

I purchased Moonlander (also by Ergo Dox), though the software and the build is amazing, but nothing beats my Planck, I just don't like the whole thumb setup it gets my way. I am far more comfortable with a small keyboard such as planck than a wide setup.

Re: Split keyboards and how to build them

#44

Post by dmlerner »

I love my (three) keyboard.io Model 01s. Thumb clusters, palm keys, ortholinear layout, layers, arduino powered, extensive plugin system, and best of all, standard tripod mounts to which I have attached gorilla pods. (Also RGB, if you're into that.) Keyboards with ~15 degrees of adjustability in one plane are better than nothing, but this gives me full adjustability.

Took me...a while to decide how to map things for Vim + (on linux) i3wm + (on windows) Dexpot (for virtual desktops) and Aquasnap (as a window manager).

Some previous ulnar nerve pain got massively better. Thumbs are just such better digits. Why are we using pinkies for a billion keys?

Re: Split keyboards and how to build them

#45

Post by betwixthewires »

I'm curious why none of these split designs ever feature a trackball on the right half integrated into the board somehow. There are plenty of FOSS trackball designs, it seems like it would just make sense, especially for ergonomic designs, to have a trackball set up where you don't have to move your hand over to move a cursor.

Also I don't understand why they're always missing function keys.

Re: Split keyboards and how to build them

#46

Post by srcreigh »

nbzso wrote: post #3

Speaking of real ergonomic and health in my humble opinion, the designs with Concave keywell (Kinesis/Dactyl) are the way to go. I have jumped on to Kinesis Advantage 2 and all my wrist pain is no more.

After ~1.5 years using emacs keybindings in IntelliJ, I couldn't code for more than 20 minutes without pain.

I no longer have any extended pain due to:

1. Modal editing. I use the boon package for emacs, but basically vim

2. Sticky keys. Basically, I don't have to hold down any modifiers, I just press Ctrl then press N for example. Or two Ctrl to lock it, NNNNNN, then Ctrl to return to normal. On macs this is in the Accessibility app under Keyboard. It doesn't work so well with Shift + mouse scroll though.

3. Kinesis advantage 2

4. Dvorak

I still sometimes get a bit of pinky pain since I shift and ctrl with my pinkies. With sticky keys, modal editing, and mechanical switches in the Advantage 2, it's not really a problem.

I learned that the macbook keyboards aren't that bad if I use modal editing and sticky modifier keys. Also I need to be careful to avoid so-called "ulnar deviation" of my wrists. This means I lift my wrists, let my fingers hang down more, so I can keep the wrists neutral while hitting shift etc.

I don't think Dvorak helps much, but I still like it. It was intentionally put together. I think it helped to learn Dvorak and the concave key well of Advantage 2 at the same time. I never learned qwerty on the Advantage 2 or Dvorak on macbook keyboard. I want to try the programmer's dvorak layout as well for lisp.

Re: Split keyboards and how to build them

#47

Post by Merad »

betwixthewires wrote: post #45

I'm curious why none of these split designs ever feature a trackball on the right half integrated into the board somehow. There are plenty of FOSS trackball designs, it seems like it would just make sense, especially for ergonomic designs, to have a trackball set up where you don't have to move your hand over to move a cursor. Also I don't understand why they're always missing function keys.

The Ultimate Hacking Keyboard supports a trackball or trackpad attached to the right half. The expansion modules just recently became available though so it may be hard to find reviews or people with hands on experience.

Re: Split keyboards and how to build them

#48

Post by __mharrison__ »

banana_giraffe wrote: post #4

One thing I'm always curious about, especially with some of the layouts of keyboards with multiple "layers" to accomplish things: Do people using these keyboards as their daily driver have trouble adapting to normal keyboards they need to use from time to time. I suppose I could try one and find out if it's an issue for me, but I'd be worried I get deep into this rabbit hole only to find I'm useless if I have to work…

I treat it as a different "instrument". I explicitly chose to use the Norman layout on my ergodox to further distinguish it from my laptop keyboard (which before covid-19 I had to use a lot).

See https://www.metasnake.com/blog/what-i-use.html

Re: Split keyboards and how to build them

#49

Post by mleonhard »

pabloarteel wrote: post #14
nbzso wrote: post #3

Speaking of real ergonomic and health in my humble opinion, the designs with Concave keywell (Kinesis/Dactyl) are the way to go. I have jumped on to Kinesis Advantage 2 and all my wrist pain is no more.

Around that topic of ergonomic tools, I've been wanting to try a vertical mouse. As a designer, my right hand is over the mouse a lot of the time. I have a chronic pain on my right wirst, although, I not certain of the cause. Anyone her has experience with this?

Switching to a vertical mouse cleared up my arm pain. I tried many vertical mice. Evoluent's wired vertical mouse has been my favorite since 2009. Each new version is essentially the same, just with different surface finishes.

Years later, I got wrist pain in both hands. Switching to a tenting keyboard solved it. I've used the GoldTouch V2 for 7 years now.

Do not try 3M's vertical mouse with the thumb button. I used it for a few months and developed severe pain in my thumb. Fifteen years have passed and my thumb still occasionally clicks when I bend it, due to that injury.

Re: Split keyboards and how to build them

#50

Post by __mharrison__ »

I get that these are expensive... But they might be a career saver.

Listen to your body. If your fingers and wrists are telling you something, take action. It doesn't have to be an expensive split.

(I have an ergodox with the Norman keyboard layout with other firmware goodies as well as running AutoHotKeys to give me emacs bindings all over the place.)

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