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Split keyboards and how to build them

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Re: Split keyboards and how to build them

#91

Post by biztos »

fpgaminer wrote: post #82
johnsoft wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in the market for a new chair. Which one did you buy? (Or if you'd rather teach me to fish, how did you decide on one?)

There are a couple of HN threads specifically about chairs. I looked for those using the search feature and just tabulated what was most commonly recommended. That ended up being the Steelcase Leap, which is the one I got (or rather, the Leap V2). Most importantly, I bought from a reputable place that did free returns. Not much to it, really. The price tag is what really made it hard for me to pull the trigger. But a…

I bought my first serious chair about 10 years ago, a Vitra model they don’t make anymore. It was over 1000 EUR here in Berlin.

The first day of working in it, I felt like an idiot for not having made that investment ten years earlier.

Now I’m starting a period of voluntary digital vagabondage and will need to explore ergonomics options other than “nice chair.” But I will probably keep that beast in storage.

If you can try them out at a showroom that’s best but in any case I 100% agree, buy from a reputable dealer, it will save you the headache of thinking about returns even if everything is perfect.

Re: Split keyboards and how to build them

#92

Post by jseliger »

flor1s wrote: post #79
betwixthewires wrote: post #45

I'm curious why none of these split designs ever feature a trackball on the right half integrated into the board somehow. There are plenty of FOSS trackball designs, it seems like it would just make sense, especially for ergonomic designs, to have a trackball set up where you don't have to move your hand over to move a cursor. Also I don't understand why they're always missing function keys.

This would solve one of the biggest problems I have with split keyboards; where do I put my mouse? At least I'm using a Logitech Ergo Trackball, which means that I can predictability move from the keyboard to the mouse, but there is no easy way of positioning a keyboard like the ErgoDox EZ while still comfortably using the mouse as well. I ended up switching to a smaller Razer BlackWidow Lite as it allows for a more…

One strategy: https://ultimatehackingkeyboard.com/product/trackball although not yet shipping.

I put a trackpad to the left of my keyboard and taught myself to mouse with my left, as well as right, hand, and it's been a big improvement. Right hand is still stronger but my left hand is now functional for many tasks.

Re: Split keyboards and how to build them

#93

Post by tomcam »

__mharrison__ wrote: post #70
fpgaminer wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read a blog post on Coding Horror back in the mid 2000s about the importance of a good chair. It really opened my eyes and convinced me that, regardless of the cost, an ergonomic working environment is worth every penny. So fast forward about two decades ... and I finally bought my first ergonomic chair... It's stunning how stubborn we can be, even when we know for certain that something is good for us. I don't eve…

Sorry about that. When I'm not standing I am in a pretty retro chair... I get a lot of flak on Twitter but it works for me... (I have another ergo/padded chair but my back/hind isn't giving me signals) https://mobile.twitter.com/__mharrison__/status/134632333728...

Not sure why? That design has been solid for like 150 years...

Re: Split keyboards and how to build them

#94

Post by neuronexmachina »

fpgaminer wrote: post #66
__mharrison__ wrote: post #50

I get that these are expensive... But they might be a career saver. Listen to your body. If your fingers and wrists are telling you something, take action. It doesn't have to be an expensive split. (I have an ergodox with the Norman keyboard layout with other firmware goodies as well as running AutoHotKeys to give me emacs bindings all over the place.)

I read a blog post on Coding Horror back in the mid 2000s about the importance of a good chair. It really opened my eyes and convinced me that, regardless of the cost, an ergonomic working environment is worth every penny. So fast forward about two decades ... and I finally bought my first ergonomic chair... It's stunning how stubborn we can be, even when we know for certain that something is good for us. I don't eve…

> the chair I ended up buying was like $500, delivered, with all the upgrades, because it was remanufactured

Did you order your remanufactured chair from Crandall or BOTD? I just ordered a remanufactured Steelcase Leap V2 yesterday, looking forward to its arrival!

Re: Split keyboards and how to build them

#95

Post by nine_k »

betwixthewires wrote: post #45

I'm curious why none of these split designs ever feature a trackball on the right half integrated into the board somehow. There are plenty of FOSS trackball designs, it seems like it would just make sense, especially for ergonomic designs, to have a trackball set up where you don't have to move your hand over to move a cursor. Also I don't understand why they're always missing function keys.

The point of a split keyboard is that you don't need to.move your arms, which are relaxed, or your hands. You only move your fingers, and keep your eyes away from the keyboard.

For that, you want such amount of keys which you can comfortably hit by moving just your fingers. It's normally 3 rows and 6-7 columns. And say 5+5 keys in the thumb clusters.

I personally find a layout like Kyria [1] optimal for such use.

[1]: https://splitkb.com/collections/cases-and-plates/products/ky...

Re: Split keyboards and how to build them

#96

Post by gravyboat »

randmeerkat wrote: post #84
3np wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are bluetooth adapters meant to convert a USB keyboard to a wireless one. Maybe worth a shot?

It’s not just a Bluetooth adapter, the ergodox has a wired connection between the two halves as well. Really I want to everything to be wireless.

I'm using an Ergodox EZ which I really enjoy and I'm hoping wireless plus a trackball is in the next iteration. Even just being wireless (or a wireless add-on) would be great.

Re: Split keyboards and how to build them

#97

Post by Eldandan »

banana_giraffe wrote: post #4

One thing I'm always curious about, especially with some of the layouts of keyboards with multiple "layers" to accomplish things: Do people using these keyboards as their daily driver have trouble adapting to normal keyboards they need to use from time to time. I suppose I could try one and find out if it's an issue for me, but I'd be worried I get deep into this rabbit hole only to find I'm useless if I have to work…

I regularly transition from Thinkpad/laptop and 60-75% standard boards to a 60% split Ultimate Hacking Keyboard, 40% ortholinear planck, and split planck (Let's Split). The only thing that ever messed me up was using split spacebars, where one thumb maps to something besides space. I end up being confused when my less dominant thumb doesn't activate the keypress on a regular spacebar. :\ Hard to overcome the muscle memory, so I've sworn off of split spacebars unless I change all my boards to split space. Which is impossible for laptops.

Aside from that, transitioning takes no more than half a minute for it to feel natural again.

Re: Split keyboards and how to build them

#98

Post by samatman »

dehrmann wrote: post #90
__mharrison__ wrote: post #50

I get that these are expensive... But they might be a career saver. Listen to your body. If your fingers and wrists are telling you something, take action. It doesn't have to be an expensive split. (I have an ergodox with the Norman keyboard layout with other firmware goodies as well as running AutoHotKeys to give me emacs bindings all over the place.)

> But they might be a career saver. Seriously. I'll also plug vertical mice. They look goofy, but it's a better wrist position.

I picked a trackball with scroll wheel, which I'll briefly pitch:

- It's always in the same place, so reaching the mouse is completely muscle memory

- I can put it as close as possible to my keyboard

- No elbow motion except to get from keyboard to trackball

- Scrolling is a bit more than half of my 'mousing' and is easy, just spin a large wheel clockwise

I got one with two buttons, my only regret; Kensington makes one with four, but I don't care quite enough to upgrade.

Re: Split keyboards and how to build them

#99

Post by bonchicbongenre »

I recently was gifted -- very, very generously! -- a Moonlander Mark I split, ortholinear keyboard [0] (made by the same company that previously made the Ergodox). It's genuinely fantastic, and I can't ever see myself going back to either a non-split or a non-ortholinear board as my desktop's input. It's a huge improvement ergonomically -- (0) no hunched shoulders, with the halves at shoulder width (1) the ortholinear layout results in much more natural-feeling finger motions and (2) the ability to "tent" the individual halves is also wonderful, for not having to twist your wrist out of its natural somewhat-diagonal position. Beyond that, the ability to easily modify up to 32 layers of functionality [1], with macros, really is astonishingly useful once set up to your personal workflow. If I were to lose it, I'd order a replacement immediately. Highly recommend, for anyone who can justify the board's price -- I'm normally fairly frugal, so the fact that I consider a $400 keyboard anything except an egregious waste of money really speaks to how much I like this device.

[0]: https://www.zsa.io/moonlander/ [1]: https://www.zsa.io/oryx/

Re: Split keyboards and how to build them

#100

Post by bigjimmyk3 »

Pet_Ant wrote: post #10

I just ordered the evolved version of the Ergodox EZ, the Moonlander. https://www.zsa.io/moonlander/ I expect it plus relearning Dvorak will be a pain but I want to set myself up for life and it seems like a good investment.

I'm a 20+ year dvorak user, but if I was starting over again I'd probably go colemak.
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