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Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

theguardian.com

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Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#201

Post by m463 »

missedthecue wrote: post #110
theshrike79 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is a country lead by engineers with unlimited power to do whatever they want. If they want all cars to be electric, that will happen. If they want a 5 million person city just there because it's logistically advantageous, then that will happen. The good thing is that they can make decisions like this. The bad thing is that they can make decisions like this.

Autocracies seem to be the most efficient form of governance. It's a shame that this also means that they can do evil things very efficiently, given no one can stop them.

> Autocracies seem to be the most efficient form of governance.

I've wondered about this. Is there a way that democracy could compete, possibly by reflecting "the will of the people" quickly and accurately?

Or would that always fundamentally be a popularity contest?

Or will democracy require something akin to "martial law" to quickly decide and act on urgent matters?

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#202

Post by csunbird »

jeffreygoesto wrote: post #123
theshrike79 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only cars having actual battery issues so far are older Leafs (shit thermal management for the battery) and Priuses (they're just old). No other EV has had major battery issues yet, so there really hasn't been time to develop a viable 3rd party battery replacement industry. Even the actual car manufacturers tend to quote insane prices for full battery replacements because they really don't have a process in place…

"just old" applies to the battery technology used when they were built. Not to "a car" in general. It is totally uneconomic to scrap a car only because one part broke. I own a car from 1978 that is in very good shape (for some minimal maintenance cost, you should not just let it rot).

> It is totally uneconomic to scrap a car only because one part broke.

When the battery replacement cost outvalues the cars price, it is uneconomical to repair.

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#203

Post by manmal »

limaoscarjuliet wrote: post #183

The next step is to work on cleaner electricity. While most EU got the message long time ago, eastern bloc countries are much behind. Currently in Poland it is better for the environment to drive a diesel VW Golf than Tesla, as the electricity is produced from brown coal.

If you consider that the new car in Poland will be on the road for 10-15 years, it's still better to buy an electric car instead. They will exit coal soon, and in a few years the EV will be greener to operate.

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#204

Post by theshrike79 »

jjav wrote: post #135
reissbaker wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have an EV. After I drive it home, I plug it in. Except when I'm lazy, it's basically never below a couple hundred miles of range remaining. Rolling blackouts wouldn't really cause an issue, and when I've experienced blackouts, it's never been a problem. When the power is on, the car would charge back to the limit I set (I usually keep it at 80% charged to preserve the battery, which is still nearly 250 miles of ra…

> And electricity is much cheaper than gas. Maybe. When I was commuting, my daily driver gas car got 36 MPG. My commute used 0.72 gallons. At $3.55/gallon, the trip cost $2.56 or about 9.9 cents/mile. At the same time I had a Fiat 500e. The same commute consumed 11kWh. So the breakeven point (between my two cars) is $0.24/kWh in electric cost. Looking at my PG&E bill, peak time (4pm-9pm) cost is $0.35/kWh and part-pe…

American gas prices are insanely low, and not really representative of the rest of the world. cries in 1.5€/litre (about 5.7€/gallon)

My EV consumes around 15kW/100km, which by cost is equivalent of around 2 litres per 100km (117MPG)

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#205

Post by WanderPanda »

kstenerud wrote: post #124
missedthecue wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Autocracies seem to be the most efficient form of governance. It's a shame that this also means that they can do evil things very efficiently, given no one can stop them.

Autocracies are only short-term efficient. Once their initial aims are met, they become terribly inefficient, then corruption sets in, and then they must be forcibly removed. It's good for other nations who can benefit from their trailblazing, but bad for the nation itself because they're basically fucked in the future when the bill comes due. Centralization is long-term the worst kind of governance, inevitably becom…

I absolutely agree! I am just really struggling to put a time estimate on when the bill will come due for china. I think they can be in an upward trend for some more years as a technological follower. What I mean by that is that they use simple metrics of current technology (Ghz, GB, battery life, screen colors, electric car range and so in) and just “mandate” to get better in them. But all these things will eventually commoditise and if china wants to grow beyond that they have to come up with qualitative innovation. At least in my (very narrow) experience I have not seen much evidence for qualitative innovation in china. I think that is the point where their system (of this extreme obedient school system etc.) might start to struggle. I think the upper bound for that point would be a per capita gdp like south korea has (but probably much lower).

After that point (which might be in lets say 10-20 years) there can still be a veeery long downward slope (the soviet union lasted for 69 years).

I would be very interested in what other people think about this (and these timelines)

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#206

Post by theshrike79 »

titanomachy wrote: post #152
theshrike79 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on the type of 4x4 you want. If you're looking for the "I can go EVERYWHERE" type, then your options are a bit limited at the moment (Rivian, Cybertruck, Bollinger). For regular "I want better traction and pull a trailer" 4x4 you've got a bunch of options, mostly PHEV though.

Are any of those actually options "at the moment"? If I put a deposit on a Rivian or Cybertruck I have no idea when I would actually get to drive it, depends how many people are in line and whether their production lines ramp up on schedule. I can drive a Subaru off the lot today if I want.

All three are either prototypes or in pre-production, you can't really buy any of them right now. They did have prototype Rivians for Long Way Up[1] as support vehicles.

Keep the old Land Rover or Subaru and check again in a year or two for an actual EV 4x4.

[1] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt12824922/

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#207

Post by yread »

ekzy wrote: post #179

I need a new car but I am put off by the range and charging infrastructure of EV. I haven’t looked into it properly yet but I’m surprised there’s not much more good hybrid cars on the market, sounds like a great compromise on the paper. What’s the catch?

We have a Kia Niro HEV (hybrid with a tiny battery for regenerative breaking) and it's great, 4.5l/100km. We also considered the PHEV (plugin hybrid with battery for up to 60km) but it has a bit less storage space (because of the battery), we don't have anywhere to charge it and it's quite a bit more expensive. It can work very well for people who can charge at home with 30km commute (or charging also at work and 60km commute) though and it's still cheaper than pure electric.

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#208

Post by namdnay »

godmode2019 wrote: post #81

'Global sales' I hope everyone understands in China it is very hard to get a licence plate, the government allows you to get a licence plate if you buy a heavily subsidised electric car. The aim is to stimulate demand to develop an industry. Large cities also banned motorbikes and scooters, with the same aim. This is no way market driven demand, BYD is a very interesting company to look into. It is my understanding t…

> This is no way market driven demand,

All demand is driven by the fiscal and regulatory framework, that's part of what defines the market

That's like saying that petrol cars aren't "market driven demand" because there is a regulatory framework in place that lets you spew out CO2 and particles without paying fines

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#209

Post by rakoo »

kstenerud wrote: post #124
missedthecue wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Autocracies seem to be the most efficient form of governance. It's a shame that this also means that they can do evil things very efficiently, given no one can stop them.

Autocracies are only short-term efficient. Once their initial aims are met, they become terribly inefficient, then corruption sets in, and then they must be forcibly removed. It's good for other nations who can benefit from their trailblazing, but bad for the nation itself because they're basically fucked in the future when the bill comes due. Centralization is long-term the worst kind of governance, inevitably becom…

Call me cynical but climate change, the biggest threat to mankind right is right in front of us. We will also face the biggest threat to what made our civilization and our democracy possible, which is cheap quasi-unlimited access to energy (petrol in our case). Combine both and I don't see democracies as being able to efficiently navigate us out of this combined nightmare to come.

As you said, autocracies are efficient for hard problems, and we're going to face the hardest very soon

Re: Sales of electric cars up by 43% in 2020

#210

Post by akmarinov »

limaoscarjuliet wrote: post #183

The next step is to work on cleaner electricity. While most EU got the message long time ago, eastern bloc countries are much behind. Currently in Poland it is better for the environment to drive a diesel VW Golf than Tesla, as the electricity is produced from brown coal.

Sadly you're asking the poorest countries in the EU to completely overhaul their energy production. While that will happen, it'll take a longer time on average.
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