Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

nbloom.people.stanford.edu

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 570 posts

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#151

Post by ascotan »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #29

I've been 100% remote and run remote teams since 2014 and I promise that it won't stick for the broader society. Here's why: 1. Socializing is the primary activity that happens at work for the vast majority of workers. The gal or guy coming by your desk to "check in" or "see how your weekend was" etc... is literally where they find their social outlets and personal connections. 2. Managers like to be able to watch th…

#2 is the biggest issue

Management and non-management have different subcultures. Managers need power meetings, lunch meetings, shoulder-taps, etc. They are tasked with watching you and making sure everyone is on task. Non-managers don't care about in-person other than for the socializing aspect (or maybe they want to get away from the house).

I think that non-management can work effectively remote most of the time (unless u need to be doing physical labor of some sort). I'm betting that studies are going to prove this out. However, it's not clear if _management_ can effectively function remotely. Management is heavily dependent on being both seen and heard and remote platforms make this harder not easier.

Many companies have 2 subcultures, the workers want remote and the management wants in-person. I think the conversation needs to be around how to get the managers to work remotely in order to succeed. This is a mind shift in how traditional management is done and will be much slower to adopt.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#153

Post by condour75 »

Another factor: office space is expensive. In a past job I remember seeing that the cost for our midtown office was 3000 per month per employee. A company might drastically reduce their costs by having an office that only accommodates some fraction of the staff

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#154

Post by cooleddy89 »

Many of these debates about work from home remind me of the arguments about “online banking” or “e-commerce” in the early internet days. One side argues that the interpersonal relationships are critical and can never be replicated fully online. The other points at the convenience factor and claims a higher productivity for all involved.

The truth as always is somewhere in the middle. I do most of my banking online, but still visit financial institutions for important events (mortgages, large checks, etc.)

It does seem to me slightly odd that some people working in “tech”, aka an industry built on disruption, are adamant that WFH can never work. If anything, remote employees are a goldmine of valuable data that can be tracked. Wondering if a meeting is valuable? In person you have to gauge people’s thoughts or rely on surveys. For online meetings just see (anonymously) in real time who’s firing up their slack or multitasking.

Obviously there’s a extensive employee privacy issues, but the bottom line is that we have all the fundamental technologies needed to provide as much data on remote employees as we do in the office.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#155

Post by amw-zero »

Fordec wrote: post #122
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #29

I've been 100% remote and run remote teams since 2014 and I promise that it won't stick for the broader society. Here's why: 1. Socializing is the primary activity that happens at work for the vast majority of workers. The gal or guy coming by your desk to "check in" or "see how your weekend was" etc... is literally where they find their social outlets and personal connections. 2. Managers like to be able to watch th…

None of these tackle the one aspect that trumps everything else in the corporate world. Is this better for the company? Even if the majority of companies see things this way, they will return to the office. But those that succeed, survive, thrive or dominate a market will do whatever that makes them successful along the way. It doesn't matter if people like routine if the other guy beats you on revenue, time to marke…

Working together in person has to be 10 times more effective. Major doubt that anyone thinks remote working is actually more effective from the companies perspective. The only argument I ever here is that antisocial people prefer not seeing other people and getting their work done alone.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#156

Post by ashtonkem »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #29

I've been 100% remote and run remote teams since 2014 and I promise that it won't stick for the broader society. Here's why: 1. Socializing is the primary activity that happens at work for the vast majority of workers. The gal or guy coming by your desk to "check in" or "see how your weekend was" etc... is literally where they find their social outlets and personal connections. 2. Managers like to be able to watch th…

Most of the things you’re describing are actually the consequences of things being really broken. Some of that is obvious (e.g. point 2), but the rest is subtle.

My biggest concern is #1. While everyone has always socialized at work, it seems like modern Americans depend more on work for socialization than ever before. That is probably not a good thing, especially since modern professionals job hop more than ever. A world where more workers are encouraged to have friends and social circles outside of work is not a bad thing, in my opinion.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#157

Post by knicknic »

cooleddy89 wrote: post #154

Many of these debates about work from home remind me of the arguments about “online banking” or “e-commerce” in the early internet days. One side argues that the interpersonal relationships are critical and can never be replicated fully online. The other points at the convenience factor and claims a higher productivity for all involved. The truth as always is somewhere in the middle. I do most of my banking online, b…

Employees will just slack on another device. A phone or something.

I haven’t been in a bank in over 5 years. I have refinanced my home twice, and will probably do so again without stepping inside an office. The only reason I see to have an in person bank is if I wanted a safety deposit box, or frequently needed to get money changed.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#158

Post by ashtonkem »

calvinmorrison wrote: post #146
irrational wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. This is the main reason I prefer remote working. I don’t like socializing. I’m there to work, not to chit chat. You’re not my friend, your a fellow worker. 2. Time to get a better manager who trusts you. 3. Commuting is a waste of time. I roll out of bed and immediately start working. The company loses on time I could be working by having me commute. 4. Yeah, I definitely can’t relate to this one.

For something you're going to spend your life doing, it's a horrible prospect to not expect to make friends at work. As a child did you spend 12 years not making friends in school, since school is for learning and not socialization?

The average Millenial worker will job hop every 1-3 years. While it’s good to be friendly with your colleagues, you also shouldn’t build friend networks that get broken and reformed with such regularity.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#159

Post by wikibob »

buggythebug wrote: post #123
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #29

I've been 100% remote and run remote teams since 2014 and I promise that it won't stick for the broader society. Here's why: 1. Socializing is the primary activity that happens at work for the vast majority of workers. The gal or guy coming by your desk to "check in" or "see how your weekend was" etc... is literally where they find their social outlets and personal connections. 2. Managers like to be able to watch th…

Your analysis is way off 1)People hate small-talk $hit. They will not go back to work so they can small-talk 2)Like to - doesn't mean it's going to go back. Plus they can save by firing Manager who used to come and "check in" 3)People will find other ways to have normalcy - no one is going to miss commuting. 4)This is a toss up. I can see it going both ways. Going to work is a drudgery for a huge swath of Americans,…

I think you are approaching this from your own particular, engineering and possibly introverted, biased viewpoint.

As a counterpoint I would say MANY MANY people love and thrive in small talk and as is referenced elsewhere in this discussion, particularly engaging in that at work.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#160

Post by ddingus »

I have been way more productive. Hard to imagine going back to worse performance.

And it takes less time overall too.

Total win!

I do go to the office when physical things have to happen. Our business is a mix of software, hardware, service.

And I time shift physical stuff to o'dark 30 in the morning, so there is some overlap, but not much. And sometimes a whole day is needed, or a long one.

Frankly, I no longer care because most days are home days and I have a nice place to work setup just the way I like it.

The biggest benefit, outside the commute savings and other easy items mentioned here is no longer worrying about an emergency or crunch of some kind.

Shit happens. Ok fine. We all just step right up and deal. Whatever it takes. And we are ready for it, nicely charged up, ready to nail it.

On the social front, a bunch of us in my industry ended up on Zoom. We miss all the shows and some of us miss the travel (I don't and was high travel), but we connect now more than ever!

SMS, Skype, Zoom, email just work!

Frankly, I know my industry peers way better than I did before and things like mentoring or being mentored, help finding everyone a gig, all are improved.

Like I said, net win for my niche. I rather doubt there will be much of a discussion about a return to before, other than travel.

And on that front, I poured a lot of time into eliminating the need for it. It will prove to be a killer investment and the time freed up made doing it possible without also cutting into home life.

And the little things matter. We have a young one in our home again. One of my kids fell into drugs. Sucks. I am raising my grandchild.

Normally, I would find that depressing, but I can interact a lot more, be present, and those things do not take much time, but also may need to happen at the right time.

Which 10 minutes can have a huge impact! At best, it all is a modest time shift and or longer work day when needed and balance is good otherwise.

Count me as a fan. Who knew! I went into this pandemic very critical and a bit depressed and worried. Many shut down.

We have thrived. It is good.

Post reply on HN