Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf] • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#121

Post by lotsofpulp » Sun, Jan 24, 2021, 2:42 AM UTC

bootlooped wrote: post #109

slantedview wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While 3 is true, the tradeoff for not having commute vastly outweighs the normalcy of having a routine commute. Commuting is atrocious and not having to do it is wonderful.

I once lived and worked in the Midwest, in a medium sized city, and drove 30 minutes to work. Traffic was not bad. It gave me a chance to listen to audiobooks, podcasts, and sometimes just to think alone in silence. Now my subway commute from Brooklyn to the financial district on the other hand...

Both of those sound horrible to me. 5 to 15 min walk/bike is much nicer.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#122

Post by Fordec » Sun, Jan 24, 2021, 2:43 AM UTC

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #29

I've been 100% remote and run remote teams since 2014 and I promise that it won't stick for the broader society. Here's why: 1. Socializing is the primary activity that happens at work for the vast majority of workers. The gal or guy coming by your desk to "check in" or "see how your weekend was" etc... is literally where they find their social outlets and personal connections. 2. Managers like to be able to watch th…

None of these tackle the one aspect that trumps everything else in the corporate world. Is this better for the company?

Even if the majority of companies see things this way, they will return to the office. But those that succeed, survive, thrive or dominate a market will do whatever that makes them successful along the way. It doesn't matter if people like routine if the other guy beats you on revenue, time to market and profitability. The people that win in their market segment are not "most" people.

Until it is confirmed that 100% remote, with workers distributed all around the world that can be the best at what they do, or are cheaper or are capable of being trusted to get the job done without someone breathing over their shoulder are worse at competing than the status quo, the jury is still out.

Broader society? When has that mattered in the face of disruption? Until the day remote working gets outright banned, this game has yet to fully play out.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#123

Post by buggythebug » Sun, Jan 24, 2021, 2:44 AM UTC

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #29

I've been 100% remote and run remote teams since 2014 and I promise that it won't stick for the broader society. Here's why: 1. Socializing is the primary activity that happens at work for the vast majority of workers. The gal or guy coming by your desk to "check in" or "see how your weekend was" etc... is literally where they find their social outlets and personal connections. 2. Managers like to be able to watch th…

Your analysis is way off

1)People hate small-talk $hit. They will not go back to work so they can small-talk

2)Like to - doesn't mean it's going to go back. Plus they can save by firing Manager who used to come and "check in"

3)People will find other ways to have normalcy - no one is going to miss commuting.

4)This is a toss up. I can see it going both ways. Going to work is a drudgery for a huge swath of Americans, too.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#124

Post by paulcole » Sun, Jan 24, 2021, 2:45 AM UTC

ameister14 wrote: post #56

varjag wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, most employers would take 8 hours of quality work over 4 hours of quality work for the same salary.

Most employers aren't actually operating with efficiency as the main goal. Look at it this way: worker A makes 10 widgets an hour. In 8 hours, he makes 80 widets. worker B makes 20 widgets an hour. In 4 hours, he makes 80 widgets. Why should the employer care about which one works more hours?

Because most people aren’t as productive as Worker B.

Having Worker B come in late and leave early sets a bad example for all the Worker As (and breeds resentment among them). Worker B staying all day and screwing around half the time and distracting Worker A so they get 8 widgets done an hour instead of 10 is bad, too.

Give me 10 average people over 5 great ones any day. Average people can get better when they work together. Great people get bored and move on. Average people are just fine for most jobs.

And I assure you that I’m decidedly average and unspectacular in every way.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#125

Post by sjs7007 » Sun, Jan 24, 2021, 2:47 AM UTC

konjin wrote: post #25

One thing I don't see mentioned is the class action lawsuits that will be incoming for unsafe working environments. I haven't gotten the flu once last year, yet in open offices I got it like clockwork at the end of fall and at the start of spring. If covid is dangerous enough to lock down society yet is only x5 as deadly as bad flu seasons open offices are literal murder.

While I'm sure open offices don't help in being exposed to flu, it could also just be because people are more careful these days with the hand sanitizers and mask wearing.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-19-has-nearly-wiped-out-t...

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#126

Post by ColFrancis » Sun, Jan 24, 2021, 2:47 AM UTC

aurbano wrote: post #113

lambda_obrien wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need to replace the "work as social outlet" with something else. It's not the office anyone wants, it's the connection, we're just lacking the connection part to make remote work... well... work.

I’ve been saying this for a while.. we are missing local communities in today’s society. People used to go to church and do religious events and things sometimes during the week - this is all gone now, and I wish we had an alternative that didn’t rely on religion, just based on the local community somehow. Community centers 2.0 or whatever, but a place where people have a reason to go. I can only think of classes whi…

Here's a random thought:

Community, in some ways, require some lock in (don't think in absolutes here but switching costs etc.). If you're locked in to the community you have to sort out differences and make it work. For religion and work the lock in is obvious. But outside of these we can easily chop and change our community leading to us not bothering about compromise as much and us missing out on the deeper relationships.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#127

Post by altgeek » Sun, Jan 24, 2021, 2:50 AM UTC

dehrmann wrote: post #107

sputknick wrote: post #14

I think WFH continues until a company misses financial numbers for a quarter, or a competitor brings their people back into the office, or performance slips. This won't last beyond that.

I think it lasts until a startup (not necessarily in tech) dethrones an incumbent because working in-person helped with vision, alignment, and performance. My hunch is that WFH projects are less ambitious and have less collaboration.

^This

Everyone gets into "heads down" mode, "get tickets" done mode, and the big picture gets missed when everyone is scattered with 100% WFH.

Also, hiring new engineers with 100% WFH has been an total nightmare.

I think that 3 days in-office is "just right"

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#128

Post by s0rce » Sun, Jan 24, 2021, 2:50 AM UTC

buggythebug wrote: post #123

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #29

I've been 100% remote and run remote teams since 2014 and I promise that it won't stick for the broader society. Here's why: 1. Socializing is the primary activity that happens at work for the vast majority of workers. The gal or guy coming by your desk to "check in" or "see how your weekend was" etc... is literally where they find their social outlets and personal connections. 2. Managers like to be able to watch th…

Your analysis is way off 1)People hate small-talk $hit. They will not go back to work so they can small-talk 2)Like to - doesn't mean it's going to go back. Plus they can save by firing Manager who used to come and "check in" 3)People will find other ways to have normalcy - no one is going to miss commuting. 4)This is a toss up. I can see it going both ways. Going to work is a drudgery for a huge swath of Americans,…

I commute by bike and I miss it. I'm not motivated enough to just go for a bike ride around the neighborhood so the commute was really good at forcing me to get my daily exercise. I know this isn't everyone's experience but I miss my commute!

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#129

Post by altgeek » Sun, Jan 24, 2021, 2:52 AM UTC

wernercd wrote: post #75

Working from home will stick FOR SOME... but not for others. I have a long commute and don't miss it... i do miss the books/podcasts and I miss the office. I hope we go to a 3 day home, 2 day office but we'll see. Managers like having butts in seats. we'll see how it goes long term

So true. The big (top 5) global bank I worked for loved butts-in-seats. I've finally arrived at a place where I refuse anything that requires more than 3 days in-office.

Re: Why Working from Home Will Stick [pdf]

#130

Post by nine_k » Sun, Jan 24, 2021, 3:00 AM UTC

Fordec wrote: post #122

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #29

I've been 100% remote and run remote teams since 2014 and I promise that it won't stick for the broader society. Here's why: 1. Socializing is the primary activity that happens at work for the vast majority of workers. The gal or guy coming by your desk to "check in" or "see how your weekend was" etc... is literally where they find their social outlets and personal connections. 2. Managers like to be able to watch th…

None of these tackle the one aspect that trumps everything else in the corporate world. Is this better for the company? Even if the majority of companies see things this way, they will return to the office. But those that succeed, survive, thrive or dominate a market will do whatever that makes them successful along the way. It doesn't matter if people like routine if the other guy beats you on revenue, time to marke…

Unhappy and distressed worker is a less productive worker. Some forms of unhappiness and distress may be applied to increase productivity, like deadlines and fear of being fired. But for most people who can even work from home their needs to concentrate and to communicate are way more important for productivity.